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Re:English Wikipedia drove out fringe editors over two decades by LordDragonfang on Monday November 06, 2023 @04:58PM (#38169611)
> the author "classif[ied] editors into the Anti-Fringe camp (AF) and the Pro-Fringe camp (PF)". The AF camp is described as "editors who were anti-conspiracy theories, anti-pseudoscience, and liberal", whereas the PF camp consists of "Editors who were more supportive of conspiracy theories, pseudoscience, and conservatism."

It's interesting to see Wikipedia publication so readily admit that, rightly or wrongly, its "Neutral Point of View" considers [American] conservatism a "fringe" (implicitly, counterfactual) belief.

The "politics" section further down touches on this, but doesn't actually deny it. Like I said, interesting, since it's something that I've seen conservatives whine about, but I assumed Wikipedia's official position was the "NPOV" meant politically neutral.

Re:English Wikipedia drove out fringe editors over two decades by lazyasciiart on Monday November 06, 2023 @05:06PM (#38169728)
There are two mistakes in your response here. 1) "the author" is an academic who is being quoted by a writer for the Wikipedia newsletter. No "Wikipedia publication" is admitting or endorsing that definition. In fact the newsletter piece discusses several issues they have with the definition.

2) A classification system that combines multiple attributes to define a group is not a claim that all the attributes that define one group are equivalent to each other. It's a measure of correlation.

Re:English Wikipedia drove out fringe editors over two decades by LordDragonfang on Monday November 06, 2023 @05:39PM (#38170144)
I made the mistake of stopping there to comment before finishing the article, so I've gotten several replies to this effect; You were the first, so I'll respond to yours.

"Endorsing" might be too strong a word, but they're certainly highlighting it.

None of the issues the article author (User:HaeB) has with the study's classification really manage to rebut it. They bring up a 2012 study (pointing out its methods were dubious) - but that was over a decade ago, and before the reforms to NPOV enforcement as the article and paper define them.

The author says it may not "generalize to other countries", but that just means we're talking specifically about American "conservatism" (and "liberalism"). Likewise, there's the anecdote about applying the general principles to the Republican Houses of Congress, where anti-Trump is the fringe, but the comparison there only really holds with the implicit admission that in Wikipedian politics, non-liberals are the fringe among the people making the decisions.

Re:English Wikipedia drove out fringe editors over two decades by lazyasciiart on Monday November 06, 2023 @11:10PM (#38173154)
Why would they “rebut” a correlation? Is there some reason you think it is impossible for American conservatism to correlate with conspiracy theories? Did you just entirely ignore my explanation of the classification system?
Re:English Wikipedia drove out fringe editors over two decades by brucethemoose2 on Monday November 06, 2023 @05:10PM (#38169788)
This is discussed in the "Fringe and politics" section, and not from the Wikipedia writers:

> As readers might have noticed above, the author includes political coordinates in his conception of "fringe" ("more supportive of conspiracy theories, pseudoscience, and conservatism") and "anti-fringe" ("anti-conspiracy theories, anti-pseudoscience, and liberal"). This is introduced rather casually in the paper without much justification...

I don't want to quote the whole thing, but its worth a read.

Re:English Wikipedia drove out fringe editors over two decades by f5e4 on Monday November 06, 2023 @05:10PM (#38169787)
This article is discussing a paper about Wikipedia. This quote is from the research paper. It is not someone from Wikipedia saying this.

This article briefly addresses this inclusion of the political-leaning in the definition of fringe later on.

Re:English Wikipedia drove out fringe editors over two decades by chpatrick on Monday November 06, 2023 @05:10PM (#38169789)
I think these days there's conservatism and "conservatism".
Re:English Wikipedia drove out fringe editors over two decades by RajT88 on Monday November 06, 2023 @05:16PM (#38169866)
I think there's always been those different flavors of conservatism in play, even when the parties were not aligned according to conservative/liberal.

https://twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/105039166355267174...

Re:English Wikipedia drove out fringe editors over two decades by chpatrick on Monday November 06, 2023 @05:19PM (#38169907)
That tweet brings to mind American Republicans being keen on my home country's prime minister Orbán, where the state increasingly controls everything and we have the highest VAT in the world. Must be "those views".
Re:English Wikipedia drove out fringe editors over two decades by RajT88 on Monday November 06, 2023 @05:26PM (#38169987)
Yes, there's a lot they admire about the guy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Orb%C3%A1n#Criticism_an...

Re:English Wikipedia drove out fringe editors over two decades by Brian_K_White on Monday November 06, 2023 @05:13PM (#38169829)
It's unfortunate, but probably defensible. That is, if the correlation is high, then the correlation is high, and I'd rather observe and act on that than ignore it.

It's only unfortunate in that it legitimizes groupthink. Varying degress of conservatism with a small C should ideally be allowed and encouraged, the same as varying degrees of novelty-seeking vs risk-aversion (value freedom vs value safety), tolerance for confrontation or debate, logic vs emotion, etc, etc.