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Re:A Man. A Woman. Just Friends? by rdtsc on Monday April 09, 2012 @08:41AM (#3816708)
> The good point hidden in the article is that American culture has no real idea of "friendship" in a sense that people from other cultures either now or historically would recognize as such. American's just don't have friends. We have weak acquaintencnes. Why? Nobody seems to know. But it's something that probably deserves more attention.

I think that is a very interesting point. I have mentioned that as well in the past a couple of times. There was a difference in how friendships worked in my old country (in Eastern Europe) and how they work here. Here "friendships" are just acquaintances as you said. People gather lots of acquaintances but no or few good friends.

I'll propose a couple of reasons:

* People are more mobile. They move more so they don't have time to really make friends. This starts in childhood when kids move with the parents from school district to school district from neighborhood to neighborhood. There is a non-negligible network effect here and that is even if you don't move and live on one street and go to one school, chances are your friend's family will.

* Education system. At some point kids stop being in one class and are allowed to pick individual classes and schedules. So they stop seeing or spending time with the same classmates. There is extracurricular activities of course but it is not the same as starting with 1st grade and potentially being with the same group of people until the 12th grade.

* More individualism. Being a friend means sharing more and means relying on other more. In other words it means asking for help and offering help. This means "being in other people's business" which is a no-no in U.S. But the other side of being too individualistic means never really opening up to a friend. And at the end of the day one can only get so close talking about the weather, after some time it gets boring. So there is the wall that people don't let others through.

* Affluence. I think in countries where it is harder to survive on your own. People will stick together better for support. They have to have a support group to survive. In richer countries people can get by easier living alone and being more independent.

* It is not as much countries as times. In other words in the past, people used to have fewer but closer friends anywhere in the world. And, say, in the last 30 years people started to become more isolated. Could be technology, or globalization (people have to move because of jobs).

* It is not the world it is you. You just got older, more paranoid, and more withdrawn. The perception is that there just aren't that many friendly people around. But maybe other people just don't want to be friends with "you" in particular. They are still people with very good close friends but because you don't have them now, it seems like nobody does.

Re:A Man. A Woman. Just Friends? by bdunbar on Monday April 09, 2012 @10:31AM (#3817095)
People gather lots of acquaintances but no or few good friends.

This is not the norm, in my experience.

Worth noting that America is a big place, with lots of variety. You know this of course.

I can see what you describe being the norm in a large city. Where I live now - small town, middle of inner-nowhere - it's not.

Re:A Man. A Woman. Just Friends? by ArtB on Monday April 09, 2012 @10:53AM (#3817185)
> I can see what you describe being the norm in a large city. Where I live now - small town, middle of inner-nowhere - it's not.

Not to be an ass, but to recap your "rebuttal": in the places which are dying this isn't the case, but I could see it happening in the places that are becoming increasingly prevalent and important it might be.

I think the change is undeniable, you're just in one of the last places that will get hit.

Re:A Man. A Woman. Just Friends? by bdunbar on Monday April 09, 2012 @11:01AM (#3817224)
in the places which are dying

In what sense do you mean 'dying'? 'Prevalent and important'?

Re:A Man. A Woman. Just Friends? by ArtB on Monday April 09, 2012 @11:43AM (#3817447)
Wealth creation seems to be focussed increasingly on metropolitan areas and the rural manufacturing and farming areas seem to be going through population decline.
Re:A Man. A Woman. Just Friends? by bdunbar on Monday April 09, 2012 @12:09PM (#3817582)
rural manufacturing and farming areas seem to be going through population decline.

I will allow this is the case for some areas. It it not universally true.

It sure isn't where I live.

Re:A Man. A Woman. Just Friends? by ArtB on Monday April 09, 2012 @01:13PM (#3817929)
Maybe you are in a real anomaly, but whenever we leave the city, once we get pass commuting distance the number of For Sale signs is astounding (sometimes like 10% of a town or hamlet) while in the city housing is booming.
Re:A Man. A Woman. Just Friends? by bdunbar on Monday April 09, 2012 @03:49PM (#3818869)
I don't think I live in an anomaly.

Statewide statistics here: http://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.wi.htm

I live in this met region: http://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.wi_oshkosh_msa.htm

Re:A Man. A Woman. Just Friends? by JoeAltmaier on Monday April 09, 2012 @08:56AM (#3816759)
I don't know - my brother (a good friend) moved 3 hours away. I couldn't go help unload the truck, so I reluctantly saw him off. Then I remembered an old friend that lived in that town - one email later, and she, her husband and her three boys met my brother and unloaded his truck in half an hour! On Easter Sunday!

Is she what you'd call a close friend? Haven't seen her in years. And surprise! I'm a straight guy with a wife and 3 boys of my own.

Re:A Man. A Woman. Just Friends? by rdtsc on Monday April 09, 2012 @09:01AM (#3816777)
I think she is very nice and and that was very kind thing to do. I would say that she is very friendly and willing to help. But would you call her at 2am if you feel really down and or your dog had just passed away? Would you spend the weekend at her house fixing her car with her or multiple weekends building a yacht?
Re:A Man. A Woman. Just Friends? by JoeAltmaier on Monday April 09, 2012 @09:07AM (#3816791)
Not all of that, no. But I spent 12 years taking her boys camping with mine, once a month, summer and winter.

And I've driven my tractor 12 miles to her place (when they lived nearby) to open her driveway after a snowstorm. And gave her a car when her middle boy needed a way to get to work.

So I guess it works lots of ways, not just the way it did in your home town.

Re:A Man. A Woman. Just Friends? by littlegiantcap on Monday April 09, 2012 @11:29AM (#3817375)
I'm sorry but I disagree. Here's the thing, everything you're saying is true in the context of a big city. However, you come out to the country and none of what you're saying holds true. I've lived in Chicago and I've lived in Iowa for years each. I had lots of friends in both places. I talk to exactly one person from Chicago still, but I regularly keep in touch with all of my Iowan friends even after they've moved.
Re:A Man. A Woman. Just Friends? by rdtsc on Monday April 09, 2012 @11:45AM (#3817459)
Yeah I lived in a small town in Midwest and then in big cities. But maybe I never experienced try truly rural US (as in you have to drive 40 miles to do grocery shopping).

I am sort of afraid that the last point holds for me and I just got paranoid and old and people don't want to be friend with me. To me, it might seem like it is a old-world vs US or other such things, but it could be just me rationalizing all along. That is why I am interested in getting others perspective on this.