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Re:Why Banks Are Suddenly Closing Down Customer Accounts by zb3 on Sunday November 05, 2023 @06:19PM (#38156782)
How can I pay my bills with bitcoin while being debanked?
Re:Why Banks Are Suddenly Closing Down Customer Accounts by krupan on Sunday November 05, 2023 @06:33PM (#38156898)
Lots of discussion in the comments here about how ingrained banks are into our current system. I do honestly see Bitcoin as a way out of that, but at this early stage of it, you'd probably have to get help from someone who is not debanked in order to interact with our heavily banked system. If you are honestly interested in this, take a close look at Strike.
Re:Why Banks Are Suddenly Closing Down Customer Accounts by 2-718-281-828 on Sunday November 05, 2023 @06:51PM (#38157062)
BTC or BCH?
Re:Why Banks Are Suddenly Closing Down Customer Accounts by krupan on Sunday November 05, 2023 @07:11PM (#38157199)
BTC. BCH was a failed attempt at improving Bitcoin
Re:Why Banks Are Suddenly Closing Down Customer Accounts by BLKNSLVR on Sunday November 05, 2023 @08:47PM (#38157850)
I mostly agree with krupan's answer below, but it depends on use-case.

BTC for investment or long-term store of value. BCH, or various other alternatives (Litecoin, XRP, Stellar, cough Nano cough), for making payments. But if you can use the Lightning network, then BTC works for payments as well (arguably - in this space anything and everything is highly arguable).

If you're seriously looking down the track at using cryptocurrency, spend some time playing with small amounts of it to see how it all works. Different coins have different use-cases, and it's very confusing to come from zero knowledge. Also transferring and converting between different coin types can kill you in fees, so keep an eye on that as well.

And in doing your research don't believe what anyone says about anything, especially youtube folks. Find the most likely narratives amongst the jungle of snakes and traps, based on your own experience at detecting bullshit and applying logic.

Re:Why Banks Are Suddenly Closing Down Customer Accounts by krupan on Sunday November 05, 2023 @10:10PM (#38158354)
I'm sorry, but playing with anything other than BTC Bitcoin and lightning is just going to waste your time and resources. I'm sorry, but the last 15 years has taught us that again and again. Definitely do your own research, start with small amounts, but be very, very careful especially with anything not BTC.
Re:Why Banks Are Suddenly Closing Down Customer Accounts by BLKNSLVR on Sunday November 05, 2023 @11:27PM (#38158864)
Comment feels like a great example of a bitcoin-maxi. An important data point, worth paying strong heed to, but also worth understanding the reasons behind bitcoin-maxi perspectives in order to see where you fit along the scale.

Bitcoin itself has the longest, most proven history. It's the safest house in the least safe neighbourhood. It's also the best performing asset of it's lifetime so far (something like that anyway).

It's use-case has changed since it was created, and there are additional use-cases to which other cryptocurrencies cater, smart contracts being the primary example (which then facilitate a whole other ecosystem of products, of arguable value and utility to humanity).

I'm around 50% bitcoin-maxi, to expose my illogical stance :)

I also have barely a little toe dipped into that particular asset pool, so my opinion isn't necessarily fully formed or well founded.

Re:Why Banks Are Suddenly Closing Down Customer Accounts by hanniabu on Sunday November 05, 2023 @08:55PM (#38157890)
Strike is custodial. Figures that an account saying "bitcoin not crypto" recommends using centralized infrastructure. Very par for course with the bitcoin community.
Re:Why Banks Are Suddenly Closing Down Customer Accounts by krupan on Sunday November 05, 2023 @10:05PM (#38158324)
I was answering the question about how to interact with non-bitcoin users today. That requires trusting some third party. Strike is a good one for making Venmo like payments. The best exchange right now that I have found is Swan.

If you know of better ones please chime in

Re:Why Banks Are Suddenly Closing Down Customer Accounts by Quindecillion on Monday November 06, 2023 @06:32AM (#38161204)
You obviously don't spend much time in, or interacting with, the Bitcoin community.
Re:Why Banks Are Suddenly Closing Down Customer Accounts by Ridj48dhsnsh on Sunday November 05, 2023 @10:40PM (#38158577)
> take a close look at Strike.

Could you clarify what you find interesting about it? I skimmed their website and looks like just a lightning wallet. Am I missing some key feature that helps one interact with fiat systems?

Re:Why Banks Are Suddenly Closing Down Customer Accounts by krupan on Sunday November 05, 2023 @11:18PM (#38158797)
It is a lightning wallet, a Bitcoin wallet, an exchange, and a venmo like payment app.
Re:Why Banks Are Suddenly Closing Down Customer Accounts by x-complexity on Sunday November 05, 2023 @08:38PM (#38157794)
> How can I pay my bills with bitcoin while being debanked?

Acting as an alternative to krupan's Bitcoin-centric answer:

- There are other crypto rails other than Bitcoin that could be used in its place. USDC & stablecoins in general is going to be the medium-term winners in this space, as more services are set up to help people pay their bills with stablecoins. Here are 2 services that I've found within a few minutes of searching "USDC pay bill":

https://www.spritz.finance/blog/pay-bills-crypto

https://bitpay.com/bill-pay/

- As for transaction costs, L2s are already being deployed, and their fees will only be further reduced as improvements to the L2 networks are made.

https://l2fees.info/

Re:Why Banks Are Suddenly Closing Down Customer Accounts by Tao3300 on Sunday November 05, 2023 @09:25PM (#38158072)
> space

There's the signal. Don't trust anything this person says.

Re:Why Banks Are Suddenly Closing Down Customer Accounts by catlover76 on Sunday November 05, 2023 @09:43PM (#38158176)
huh?
Re:Why Banks Are Suddenly Closing Down Customer Accounts by Tao3300 on Sunday November 05, 2023 @10:01PM (#38158292)
As a rule of thumb, people calling crypto a "space" are trying to hustle you.
Re:Why Banks Are Suddenly Closing Down Customer Accounts by TheCapeGreek on Monday November 06, 2023 @02:22AM (#38159726)
huh?

I'm no crypto fanatic, but I call plenty of things a "space". It's basically a synonym for niche?

Re:Why Banks Are Suddenly Closing Down Customer Accounts by Tao3300 on Monday November 06, 2023 @07:24AM (#38161610)
Glad to hear that. Notice I said

> rule of thumb

Not to be confused with a universal law.

See also that the other comments pointed out that the USDC recommendation didn't even make a whole lot of sense. Hmm...

Re:Why Banks Are Suddenly Closing Down Customer Accounts by TheCapeGreek on Monday November 06, 2023 @09:46AM (#38163297)
My point is even as a rule of thumb it doesn't make sense.

You might as well just say that mentioning crypto at all is a red flag and call it a day.

Re:Why Banks Are Suddenly Closing Down Customer Accounts by Tao3300 on Monday November 06, 2023 @11:54AM (#38165069)
Whoa. You guessed my other rule!
Re:Why Banks Are Suddenly Closing Down Customer Accounts by krupan on Sunday November 05, 2023 @10:03PM (#38158307)
USDC and stablecoins are centrally controlled and do not solve the problems that we are talking about here.
Re:Why Banks Are Suddenly Closing Down Customer Accounts by FireBeyond on Sunday November 05, 2023 @10:11PM (#38158357)
From just one of those L2 networks:

> Optimism is an EVM-equivalent Optimistic Rollup chain.

I’ll be right back, I need to explain this one to grandma.

Re:Why Banks Are Suddenly Closing Down Customer Accounts by x-complexity on Wednesday November 08, 2023 @03:10AM (#38187877)
> > Optimism is an EVM-equivalent Optimistic Rollup chain.

> I’ll be right back, I need to explain this one to grandma.

Term by term:

- EVM-equivalent: The Ethereum Virtual Machine (EVM) is the part that allows smart contract code can be run on the network. EVM-equivalency means that you can just drop in your smart contract code, and it has to run as it would on Ethereum itself.

- Optimistic Rollup: A Rollup is the current consensus for scaling up the network, by outsourcing compute to other networks, and pushing the important end state back into Ethereum. Optimistic rollups do this by assuming that there'll be at least 1 person to challenge a proposed block whenever that block's invalid. This setup however has the shortcoming of needing there to be a challenge window for other participants in the network to have time to respond.

Re:Why Banks Are Suddenly Closing Down Customer Accounts by amjnsx on Monday November 06, 2023 @04:28AM (#38160416)
Just as an FYI, USDC & stablecoins (and CBDC's) are centralised and the same abuse of power is possible here too. Obviously being debanked in fiat and crypto at the same time is extremely unlikely...but possible if someone is REALLY out to get you.
Re:Why Banks Are Suddenly Closing Down Customer Accounts by x-complexity on Monday November 06, 2023 @09:00PM (#38172210)
> Just as an FYI, USDC & stablecoins (and CBDC's) are centralised and the same abuse of power is possible here too.

It's the unfortunate consequence of one gigantic unaddressable problem:

USD can only be minted efficiently by the Fed.

- Collateralized stablecoins exist, but they're inefficient in that they must be overcollateralized to cushion against falling asset values.

- USDC & their kind are efficient, but at the cost of being centralization vectors as a result of current US legislation

- An efficient synthetic stablecoin can exist, but it requires deep liquidity in the marketplace to keep the peg stable. (Probably > $100B at the ready to absorb panic sells) Synthetic stocks are the closest analogy available for this, but applied upon a currency. The chicken-and-egg means that bootstrapping something like this is not feasible at small scales: It needs to be big from the get go.

Re:Why Banks Are Suddenly Closing Down Customer Accounts by rossrubacon on Sunday November 05, 2023 @10:14PM (#38158389)
https://bylls.com/ if your in canada
Re:Why Banks Are Suddenly Closing Down Customer Accounts by orangepurple on Monday November 06, 2023 @04:00AM (#38160237)
Anything with KYC puts you at risk of being de-banked. And every payment processor requires KYC.
Re:Why Banks Are Suddenly Closing Down Customer Accounts by orangepurple on Monday November 06, 2023 @03:59AM (#38160224)
You can't. Every US Dollar touch point is heavily regulated. Back in the day Local Bitcoins was the way to convert crypto to cash but now its highly regulated and they implemented enhanced anti money laundering controls.
Re:Why Banks Are Suddenly Closing Down Customer Accounts by CapricornNoble on Monday November 06, 2023 @07:10AM (#38161495)
Hmmmmm, I wonder if there is some way we could setup a website like Local Bitcoins but decentralized? Like with ipfs or i2p or something...
Re:Why Banks Are Suddenly Closing Down Customer Accounts by webninja on Monday November 06, 2023 @09:19AM (#38162896)
The sellers who run it as a business might risk getting an unlicensed money transfer penalty depending on the country they are operating from.

Law: 18 U.S. Code § 1960