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Re:Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaSc... by scarface_74 on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:46PM (#38046947)
There is no such thing as a high quality ad supported service. Ads make the user experience worse in every single circumstance.

I forget how bad Google Search is until I get a new computer/phone without ad blocking enabled

Re:Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaSc... by akoboldfrying on Saturday October 28, 2023 @12:15AM (#38047086)
All of the services I mentioned are either directly (Search) or indirectly ad-supported, the latter insofar as Google pays for their development and upkeep somehow, and most of Google's revenue comes from ads. And I think they are all of excellent quality.

Ads are irritating, and Google is not supplying these services out of the goodness of their heart, but I think there's no question that the world is a better place with these ad-supported services in it.

Re:Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaSc... by mistercheph on Saturday October 28, 2023 @01:05AM (#38047302)
I’ll raise the question.
Re:Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaSc... by TheMode on Saturday October 28, 2023 @06:42AM (#38048728)
I mean, if Google gets its revenue solely from ads. Doesn't it mean that you are paying for the ads you see?

I would rather have all google products be paid, and lessen the incentive for business to spend a large share of their revenue on advertisement.

Re:Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaSc... by akoboldfrying on Saturday October 28, 2023 @07:11AM (#38048881)
>Doesn't it mean that you are paying for the ads you see?

I don't follow, sorry. By "you", do you mean the end-user, sitting in front of their browser? I'd agree that that person is paying Google with their attention (hopefully in exchange for other valuable content nearby in time or space). But it's the companies trying to advertise stuff that pay Google cash (in exchange for that attention). Google then pays a cut to the site hosting the ad.

>I would rather have all google products be paid, and lessen the incentive for business to spend a large share of their revenue on advertisement.

I don't think Google would have ever gotten off the ground if you had to pay cash to search for stuff -- do you?

How many people do you know who watch YouTube?

How many of them have YouTube Premium?

Re:Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaSc... by TheMode on Saturday October 28, 2023 @02:21PM (#38052150)
Companies pay Google with the money they got from you. They aren't getting "attention" they are getting future potential sales which will fund the next advertising round.

> I don't think Google would have ever gotten off the ground if you had to pay cash to search for stuff -- do you?

If online advertisement became illegal, Google or somebody else would have gotten off by selling search as a service.

I am not saying that this move would have made Google more successful, they are already successful. But I do not believe that this success is reaching us, consumers.

Re:Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaSc... by akoboldfrying on Saturday October 28, 2023 @05:31PM (#38053561)
>Companies pay Google with the money they got from you

You talk as though this has already happened, but that's not the case. Companies pay Google with money they hope to recoup from you via your purchases, but whether or not you choose to buy the thing advertised is completely up to you. Advertising is an investment with uncertain returns, like any other.

>If online advertisement became illegal, Google or somebody else would have gotten off by selling search as a service.

It's possible, but I just don't think there's enough of an appetite to pay small amounts of cash for this. It will be interesting to see what happens with Kagi (though I acknowledge that if it fails, that would not be definitive, since it has to compete with ad-supported services, and massive, entrenched ones at that).

Re:Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaSc... by TheMode on Sunday October 29, 2023 @02:53AM (#38056353)
> You talk as though this has already happened, but that's not the case. Companies pay Google with money they hope to recoup from you via your purchases, but whether or not you choose to buy the thing advertised is completely up to you. Advertising is an investment with uncertain returns, like any other.

It has already happened. Things you buy have an online/google advertisement markup whether you use youtube premium or not. You pay for the ads no matter if you watch them or not.

Free services aren't actually free, on a large scale they affect how much everything should cost.

> It's possible, but I just don't think there's enough of an appetite to pay small amounts of cash for this. It will be interesting to see what happens with Kagi (though I acknowledge that if it fails, that would not be definitive, since it has to compete with ad-supported services, and massive, entrenched ones at that).

This is because free services are a trap. People do not want to pay for search BECAUSE there are """free""" alternatives. If every services become paid people wouldn't be as reluctant.

Free services also create wrong expectations and change the way we should use the service. Take youtube, it is free so everybody expect everyone to be able to access the platform, and so people tend to only upload to youtube because "why would you be anywhere else". And now, when youtube obviously change its term you have a wave an angry people seeing youtube as a platform that must remain convenient or their world will collapse.

If video platforms were all paid, people wouldn't have the same expectations. Uploaded videos could only target users who also paid for the platform, and would instinctively understand that this is a temporary platform.

Re:Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaSc... by djtango on Saturday October 28, 2023 @12:34AM (#38047169)
I find Maps and YouTube are still good products
Re:Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaSc... by __float on Saturday October 28, 2023 @01:17AM (#38047364)
I sometimes throw a YouTube video on the TV for some background noise (or for my cat :-) and if you're not paying attention, the ads can get incredibly long -- not just a few minutes, but 20, 30+ minutes.
Re:Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaSc... by djtango on Saturday October 28, 2023 @01:29AM (#38047407)
Yeah, I got caught in one the other day because my gym uses YouTube for their music system.

Have also woken up to an ad that was hours long.

Not quite sure what the incentive is but maybe it works for some cases, sometimes I wonder if they're scam setups - sitting through a super long ad is a pre filter. Weirder things have been known for Internet scale.

Re:Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaSc... by synecdoche on Saturday October 28, 2023 @04:09AM (#38048099)
YouTube censors arbitrarily. And censoring is the companion of propaganda. With lying by omission being a close friend.
Re:Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaSc... by scarface_74 on Saturday October 28, 2023 @08:04AM (#38049174)
I rarely use YouTube for anything for the same reason - I pay for streaming services to not view ads.

I use Apple Maps and not Google maps

Re:Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaSc... by FpUser on Saturday October 28, 2023 @09:54AM (#38049807)
Youtube in particular - I can't watch it without ad blocker. I simply do not have enough patience.