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Re:Germany set to eclipse Japan as No. 3 economy in 2023, IM... by swyx on Thursday October 26, 2023 @04:54PM (#38031567)
the fact that Japan has wallowed in the backwaters since the 1980s is endlessly fascinating to me. Can't think of another country that had so much potential just voluntarily squander it away because of.. bad culture?
Re:Germany set to eclipse Japan as No. 3 economy in 2023, IM... by fatherzine on Thursday October 26, 2023 @05:09PM (#38031728)
While I am not an expert, the most common cited cause for the Japanese stagnation is the late '80s Japanese asset bubble, possibly worsened by the '85 Plaza Accords where US significantly devalued its currency USD, via currency market manipulation.

From a wider perspective, individuals and countries alike are subject to economic forces that sometimes are beyond their control. The American cultural habit of attributing, without rest, ill fate to moral failing, lacks in nuance. Possibly a byproduct of the historically unique wealth of opportunity bestowed onto the post-war generation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decades

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_asset_price_bubble

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plaza_Accord

Re:Germany set to eclipse Japan as No. 3 economy in 2023, IM... by nradov on Thursday October 26, 2023 @05:37PM (#38032014)
The asset bubble was a problem, but Japan has also suffered from excessive economic central planning leading to malinvestment. They squandered their resources by literally building bridges to nowhere. The book "Dogs & Demons: Tales from the Dark Side of Japan" by Alex Kerr gives a thorough and balanced explanation of what happened.

http://alex-kerr.com/html/dogs___demons__english_.html

Re:Germany set to eclipse Japan as No. 3 economy in 2023, IM... by nwienert on Thursday October 26, 2023 @05:12PM (#38031763)
Wallowed in backwaters is one way to put a nation with the second highest GDP in the world, extremely low poverty and crime, and rankings generally at the top of every measurable facet most care about including self reported quality of life.
Re:Germany set to eclipse Japan as No. 3 economy in 2023, IM... by TulliusCicero on Thursday October 26, 2023 @05:43PM (#38032083)
This is more than a little rose-colored.

Japan does do very well on some metrics, but there's also ones where they do pretty badly. For example, they do badly on measures of gender equality IIRC.

Re:Germany set to eclipse Japan as No. 3 economy in 2023, IM... by nwienert on Thursday October 26, 2023 @07:30PM (#38032983)
As measured by their own self reported satisfaction with treatment of genders, or liberal western theories on what gender equality should look like? Would be curious to see the data there.
Re:Germany set to eclipse Japan as No. 3 economy in 2023, IM... by permo-w on Thursday October 26, 2023 @05:02PM (#38031654)
wallowed in the backwaters is a bit strong. it's still the world's 3rd/4th largest economy with the 12th largest population
Re:Germany set to eclipse Japan as No. 3 economy in 2023, IM... by swyx on Thursday October 26, 2023 @05:07PM (#38031713)
yea i knkow... i struggled to describe the feelings i had about japan, this is the best i had lol. open to suggestions.

but primarily thinking of:

- nikkei/real estate not past its dotcom peak

- telecoms/internet infra generally 1 generation behind most other developed countries

- anecdotally seemingly very hostile/unstable politics especially to women and immigrants

- i vaguely remember some revisionist history around their ww2 atrocities?

Re:Germany set to eclipse Japan as No. 3 economy in 2023, IM... by mitthrowaway2 on Thursday October 26, 2023 @05:30PM (#38031942)
IMO, the lower the real estate valuations, the better. Cheap real estate is one of the main points Japan has in its favor right now. Cheap transportation, cheap food, and cheap electricity all contribute to a healthy economy; cheap real estate is no different.

On the telecom side, as with so many others, Japan squandered their early lead by being extremely inward-focused, as usual. Despite their export-oriented economy and a few giants like Toyota and Sony, most Japanese companies are rarely interested in looking beyond their (shrinking) domestic market, resulting in "Galapagos syndrome", where diverse and sophisticated domestic technologies evolve in isolation from the rest of the world, only to eventually be crushed when global competitors catch up and subsequently pass them.

Re:Germany set to eclipse Japan as No. 3 economy in 2023, IM... by permo-w on Thursday October 26, 2023 @05:13PM (#38031786)
absolutely booming culturally though. food, tv, comic books, video games, trading cards all extremely popular the world over, which cannot be said for any other nation besides the US, which is almost 3x the size and hasn't earned that position on merit the same way Japan has
Re:Germany set to eclipse Japan as No. 3 economy in 2023, IM... by throwawaymaths on Thursday October 26, 2023 @05:18PM (#38031835)
How about Rested on the laurels of its postwar boom?
Re:Germany set to eclipse Japan as No. 3 economy in 2023, IM... by fomine3 on Thursday October 26, 2023 @08:33PM (#38033368)
1. For real estates, it's not bad. Agree for stock

2. Not true. Fiber is so ubiquitous unlike the US and maybe Germany?

3. For woman, it's changing but it takes long time to be applied to real world.

4. Such people exists of course. A problem is that a part of long running ruling party is linked to such people.

Re:Germany set to eclipse Japan as No. 3 economy in 2023, IM... by FirmwareBurner on Thursday October 26, 2023 @04:59PM (#38031625)
Argentina?

Pre-war Ukraine?

Brasil?

Russia?

Turkey?

The Balkans?

Re:Germany set to eclipse Japan as No. 3 economy in 2023, IM... by permo-w on Thursday October 26, 2023 @05:02PM (#38031658)
United Kingdom?
Re:Germany set to eclipse Japan as No. 3 economy in 2023, IM... by FirmwareBurner on Thursday October 26, 2023 @05:04PM (#38031685)
Meh, UK is still in the top economies, innovators and militaries in the world and one of the most desirable immigration countries for skilled workers along with having some of the top universities in the world.

Yeah it doesn't rule the waves and 1/3 of the planet anymore like in the "glory days" of the empire but maybe that's for the better.

Re:Germany set to eclipse Japan as No. 3 economy in 2023, IM... by permo-w on Thursday October 26, 2023 @05:05PM (#38031695)
that's not what it feels like living here, and let's be real, it's that coming from the largest empire the world has ever seen, which in many ways is the problem. since the late 70s our political decisions have been tainted by the false assumption of exceptionalism
Re:Germany set to eclipse Japan as No. 3 economy in 2023, IM... by FirmwareBurner on Thursday October 26, 2023 @05:08PM (#38031718)
>that's not what it feels like living here

Then I suggest you move somewhere in the south of Europe like Italy, Greece, or the Balkans, get a job and rent there, interact with the government bureaucracy and make use of public services, just to get a perspective on what a sad hopeless economic situation and badly managed government actually looks like.

Re:Germany set to eclipse Japan as No. 3 economy in 2023, IM... by Y_Y on Thursday October 26, 2023 @05:21PM (#38031860)
I did that. Ignoring the better weather, food, culture, transport, and public services, my disposable income relative to cost of living is much higher. (But what have the Romans ever done for us?)
Re:Germany set to eclipse Japan as No. 3 economy in 2023, IM... by FirmwareBurner on Thursday October 26, 2023 @05:30PM (#38031941)
Try living as a tax payer on local wages there, not as a tourist on UK wages for the food and the weather.

There's a reason miles more young people move for work from the South of Europe to the UK and the only thing moving from the UK to the South of Europe are financially stable retirees for the food and the weather, not for work.

Re:Germany set to eclipse Japan as No. 3 economy in 2023, IM... by Y_Y on Thursday October 26, 2023 @05:56PM (#38032216)
I'm not a tax dodger, tourist or retiree, thanks.

As you have kindly suggested I have been working for companies based here for several years. It's true that the average wages here are poor and that some people move in the direction opposite to my one, but I find your generalisation to be inaccurate and unreasonable.

Re:Germany set to eclipse Japan as No. 3 economy in 2023, IM... by miguelazo on Thursday October 26, 2023 @05:08PM (#38031723)
Being anti-immigration probably contributed a lot towards this.
Re:Germany set to eclipse Japan as No. 3 economy in 2023, IM... by ruiisnwn on Thursday October 26, 2023 @05:44PM (#38032088)
Japan has a long term strategy and your country has a short term optimised strategy perhaps
Re:Germany set to eclipse Japan as No. 3 economy in 2023, IM... by miguelazo on Friday October 27, 2023 @03:05PM (#38042567)
I actually don't believe that these statistics (GDP ranking, etc) are all that useful, for many reasons. I'm just saying that one of the ways Germany and the rest of Europe have pulled ahead, despite having "structural" issues that US neoliberals drone on about incessantly, is with immigration. Japan is notoriously anti-immigrant. This raises its labor costs and creates a more insular culture that fails to adapt quickly enough. Now, its culture might be fine with that, and I respect that choice (up to the point that it becomes racist). Growth isn't everything, and as we see contributes much towards the climate destabilization we are experiencing.
Re:Germany set to eclipse Japan as No. 3 economy in 2023, IM... by throwawaysleep on Thursday October 26, 2023 @04:56PM (#38031589)
Canada.
Re:Germany set to eclipse Japan as No. 3 economy in 2023, IM... by DoughnutHole on Thursday October 26, 2023 @05:00PM (#38031638)
Canada’s situation is nothing like Japan’s.

Canada’s economy has tripled in size since 1995. Japan’s economy is smaller than it was in 1995.

Re:Germany set to eclipse Japan as No. 3 economy in 2023, IM... by vkou on Thursday October 26, 2023 @05:36PM (#38032002)
Canada's signed two Faustian bargains - one with the resource extraction economy, and one with the real estate sector.

Neither one is long-term sustainable. Eventually, the oil will be dug out of the ground, and eventually, it won't be able to endlessly generate paper value by trading rat-infested outhouses in Vancouver back-and-forth for 5 million/pop.

It has other exports[1], but they aren't the engine of Canadian economic growth.

[1] (Insert lame joke about how its biggest export is SWEs to the United States.)