All I care about is hanging out with "my friends" more, I guess I develop enough of an emotionally-compelling connection with shows/works + the characters/actors I like that I kinda never want it to end and its moot to consider the welfare of the characters or overall quality because its all abstract or academic anyway and I derive such sustained benefit or enjoyment from it continuing in perpetuity. Nothings getting solved or done or any progression truly achieved anyway so who gives a fuck? Film critics be damned, if Im happier and my mental health is better and I enjoy mysef on account of this, I really could care less about critical acclaim. Its the actors' job(s) to worry about consequences like typecasting or regret or whatever

You seem to be saying that you are a "non-discerning customer" when it comes to this type of work, and that's fine if it works for you. Others find works produced only for money to be lower quality or heartless. Maybe you similarly care about stuff in some other aspect of life (food? clothing? music? personal relationships?), just not for movies/comics.

I would argue that your discernment angle is literally just that in a similar sense with how critical theory folks approach works from various sociological and literary angles to the extent you could say those are component to the same work rather than ever possible to be definitive or representative. Like dividing by zero. Its not answerable and also discernment seemingly is axiomatic to the point its basically no different from religion or palate/taste.

Random question, did you do policy debate in high school and/or college?

Nah, should I have? Also relevant username ;)

The last time I heard someone argue like you, was as the recipient of a negative case in a policy debate round 14 years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_policy_debate_term...

> This section does not cite any sources. (October 2020)

Is there an actual article with more substance illustrating what you mean or what this section (#Kritik) was derived from? Also, I'm having a little bit of difficulty in parsing out your overall position with respect to what I've said (do feel I'm doing a bad job of it or what do you mean, exactly?)

I definitely was using that (critical theory) as more of an example and only briefly analogizing rather than me trying to argue from that vantage point specifically.

Edit: are you saying "heard" as in you were there, or you know the details of the case through reading or maybe both? Whatever the case, is there an actual source available?

Honestly, I haven't the faintest clue what you're talking about in any of the comments in this thread. I was just trying to say that I haven't felt so bamboozled since the one time I tried doing policy debate, which was different from the usual form of debate I participated in (Lincoln-Douglas). I was a decent debater, but policy debate was entirely inscrutable. Gish galloping was the name of the game - trotting out as many arguments, as quickly as possible, in as little time so as to trip up the opponent on some minor point they missed. I linked to Kritik because your seemingly random inclusion of critical theory reminded me of this convoluted type of argument which, if not responded to, will lose you the entire round.

Everything you said in this thread reminded me of that experience. Good day to you.

I think this was a bit tricky in the sense its such a qualitative matter essentially and the heart of the the opposing position seems not really falsifiable (the longer a series runs = crappier a series "becomes" -> the more it dilutes the overall qualitative artistic and intangible entertainment value+prestige of not only the series as a whole but also the individual episodes that precede such enshittification and with which one could hypothetically have previously expressed and documented satisfaction. Regardless of whether this was said outright, the logic here seems to be such.

Why don't we just normalize ex post facto law while we're at it?

I feel like we all might have gotten a bit lost in the plot here but I will leave you with this quote that I feel represents the encapsulation I have presented here:

> I tried to vibe with this POV. What's wrong with more content? But it really does cheapen the art/media you used to adore. Even if you try to ignore it, i.e. you don't have to watch / read all the Star Trek content that has been produced in the last 20 years, and after picard season 1 I completely checked out of all of it, but it just kind of makes everything you loved seem so empty. It was all about generating positive cash flows...the whole time.

Also, historical revisionism anyone?

Gish-galloping is a cool word, thanks for introducing that to me. I genuinely had never heard that or would have ever stumbled upon that but for you so props.

Could you critique my sort of closing argument just below where I mention the Gish-Galloping thing? I wonder if that is a bit more explicit and clarifying with respect to what I've been discussing here. I feel as if I wrapped up decently there and I am actually intellectually interested in your assessment of that and if you feel in any sense that I perhaps cleaned up my thinking to where you can at least parse the conclusion I come to. Genuinely would appreciate

The first paragraph of your closing remarks, beginning with "I think this was a bit tricky..." made sense. The first sentence was a bit of painful run-on, but I think the argument you're trying to make is that it's impossible to prove that "enshittification" doesn't destroy the product in it's entirety.

> Why don't we just normalize ex post facto law while we're at it?

This really puzzled me...I re-read it half a dozen times. I know what ex post facto law is. The connection to an excessively long-running television series (e.g.) defeats me.

Finally, you claim that a quote from earlier in this thread corroborates/provides evidence that "enshittification is inevitable and ultimately good" (which I think is your thesis?). But the quote you provide proves the exact opposite - that "more content cheapens the art/media you used to adore".

In only a handful of paragraphs, you flip-flopped positions entirely.

Outside of you

*passing example

[]

I mean, I am discerning in that I have expectations that if I don't like the characters or topics or "moral tenor" (like in that it cares too much about being a moral bullhorn as opposed to faithfully representing that which it handles or has an opportunity to push the envelope further) or various other intangibles, I don't like+watch it.

In my view, your position is a tad elitist and I don't particularly care for the way it places you on an implicitly superior level of comprehension but also fundamental worth in the context of this discussion.

Arguably, I both in real-time and through the aformentioned repetition get to know the show and its constituent parts far better than you single-viewing "discerners" ever could. But yeah, you notice more even though you technically notice less.

I'm inclined to suggest that you are literally the quantity over quality viewer (ie: non-discerning) and I am in fact the quality over quantity since I view less discrete works but notice and derive a more refined level of enjoyment and recognition of the subtleties present in any artistic production (and the artistic part is not something I'm going to argue with you about; its intangible and as worthlesz or priceless as the viewer subjectively evaluates)

Also, I've further insulated myself from the advertising industry's influence or ROI far more than you could ever know and likely replicate personally. This is just so glib and lovechild-of-terse-and-misguided on so many levels I can't even get to the bottom of the pile. Lets just disagree to agree on this.

Edit: Also you stay away from my miniature son and never come back ;)

Also, I feel like people who in some sense watch the same materials on repeat are—dunno, maybe less valuable to ads than someone who's constantly perusing new shows (diversifying their ad profile). Its intuitive but im not certain i can logically defend it sufficiently robustly. "You know wat I mean"