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Re:Scrollbars Are Becoming a Problem by JohnFen on Friday October 13, 2023 @11:52AM (#37871964)
If things are so tight in the layout that taking the title bar away is actually necessary, then the layout is already fundamentally bad.
Re:Scrollbars Are Becoming a Problem by tcfhgj on Friday October 13, 2023 @12:01PM (#37872075)
It's not necessary, still helps
Re:Scrollbars Are Becoming a Problem by david422 on Friday October 13, 2023 @01:18PM (#37873025)
Oh come on. Why even have a title bar at that point. Why not just stick a little tab on the side and get rid of the title bar entirely.
Re:Scrollbars Are Becoming a Problem by Dylan16807 on Friday October 13, 2023 @02:55PM (#37874138)
Is "Yes, good idea." the response you're expecting? Because that's my response.

But title bars are mandatory, so that's why not.

Re:Scrollbars Are Becoming a Problem by david422 on Friday October 13, 2023 @11:14PM (#37877788)
> But title bars are mandatory, so that's why not.

What does that even mean? That's the whole point of the discussion - standard UI elements have been bastardized so much, might as well just keep the trend going.

Re:Scrollbars Are Becoming a Problem by Dylan16807 on Saturday October 14, 2023 @01:43AM (#37878355)
Bastardized yes, but you can't truly get rid of it in all circumstances.

If there is a clean way to get rid of it, then sure that's a good option for some programs. (But there are a couple bits that you need to keep.)

But to ask "why even have it" is to fall into a discussion more about backwards compatibility than design.

Re:Scrollbars Are Becoming a Problem by funcDropShadow on Sunday October 15, 2023 @07:18AM (#37888807)
> But to ask "why even have it" is to fall into a discussion more about backwards compatibility than design.

No, it is a question about design. Window environments like Windows 11, macOS, Gnome or lots of other Linux window managers are designed for desktop PCs, not tablets. I would include Laptops under desktop PCs for this discussion, since most people -- that are working the whole day on their laptop -- add one or more screens to it. And on those large modern displays, it is more effective than ever to use overlapping non-fullscreened windows. Then it is absolutely necessary to have good standardized UI components to manage those windows. But those customized title bars break that standardization and customization. On modern Gnome I often have to search for the window that is in focus. It used to be clearly visible with a significant color difference in the titlebar. Today, there is slight difference in gray shading. That is ridiculous. And half of modern programs redefine the colors of their title bars, so you have to know for earch application which shade of gray stands for focus and which stands for not in focus. This is fucking stupid.

Re:Scrollbars Are Becoming a Problem by CRConrad on Monday October 16, 2023 @04:05AM (#37896961)
> I often have to search for the window that is in focus. It used to be clearly visible with a significant color difference in the titlebar.

First and worst offender against this basic Windows guideline: Microsoft Office.

Re:Scrollbars Are Becoming a Problem by demetrius on Saturday October 14, 2023 @02:44PM (#37883087)
That's actually a case against modern overfilled title bars.

"Real" title bars can be removed if not needed (e.g. by switching to another windowing manager like dwm on Linux with X11; not sure how it's done in Wayland or in Windows but there must be a way).

"Crowded" title-bar from Gnome can't be easily removed, because they are not managed by the window manager.

Re:Scrollbars Are Becoming a Problem by CRConrad on Monday October 16, 2023 @04:02AM (#37896952)
> But title bars are mandatory, so that's why not.

They're mandatory because they're the way to move the window with your mouse. So fucking them up with a bunch of stuff that hinders that is just as bad as not having them in the first place.

Congratulations, you've circumvented the mandatory requirement!

Which is just as bad as disregarding it in the first place.

Re:Scrollbars Are Becoming a Problem by Dylan16807 on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @12:17PM (#37917442)
Do you need the entire title bar for movement? I sure don't.
Re:Scrollbars Are Becoming a Problem by CRConrad on Thursday October 19, 2023 @11:11AM (#37943971)
https://imgur.com/a/dGwiRP5

That's a screenshot across the entire width (of the top) of my monitor, as you can see from NP++ being maximised behind MS Word. Pretty darn busy, isn't it?

Sure, I can clean it up quite a bit, I can find out how to customise that. But naive users? They'll probably freak out. (And, TBF, I just noticed you can grab on to at least some of those busy-looking fields and drag it. But I only noticed that just now, while futzing around to screenshot it. And again, would my Mom? Or yours?) No, on the whole: What large software providers do to the Windows ittle bar nowadays is shit. The larger, the shittier. So of course Microsoft itself is worst of them all.