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Re:The novel HTTP/2 'Rapid Reset' DDoS attack by scrpl on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @09:53AM (#37832128)
Another reason to keep foundational protocols small. HTTP/2 has been around for more than a decade (including SPDY), and this is a first time this attack type surfaced. I wonder what surprises HTTP/3 and QUIC hide...
Re:The novel HTTP/2 'Rapid Reset' DDoS attack by cmeacham98 on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @10:03AM (#37832243)
DNS is a small protocol and is abused by DDoS actors worldwide for relay attacks.
Re:The novel HTTP/2 'Rapid Reset' DDoS attack by scrpl on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @10:15AM (#37832414)
DNS is from 1983, give it some slack
Re:The novel HTTP/2 'Rapid Reset' DDoS attack by cmeacham98 on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @11:06AM (#37833019)
The point I'm trying to make is that "small" protocols aren't less likely to be DDoS vectors.

Avoiding designing in DDoS relay/amplication vectors requires luck or intention, not just making the protocol small.

Re:The novel HTTP/2 'Rapid Reset' DDoS attack by scrpl on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @11:39AM (#37833525)
Small, less complex protocols are inherently less likely to be insecure all things being equal, simply due to reduced attack surface.

DNS was created for a different environment, at a time when security wasn't at forefront so it's not a good example of the opposite.

Re:The novel HTTP/2 'Rapid Reset' DDoS attack by Avamander on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @11:59AM (#37833857)
This is such a strong claim I'd really appreciate something other than "smaller is better"

Abuse and abuse vectors vary wildly in complexity, some complexity is certainly required exactly to avoid dumb bottlenecks if not vulnerabilities. So based on what are you saying something simple will inherently resist abuse better?

Re:The novel HTTP/2 'Rapid Reset' DDoS attack by baby_souffle on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @02:06PM (#37835399)
> Small, less complex protocols are inherently less likely to be insecure all things being equal, simply due to reduced attack surface.

That feels intuitive in the "less code is less bugs is less security issues" sense but implies that "secure" and "can't be abused" are the same thing.

Related? Sure. Same? No.

Oddly enough, we probably could have prevented the replay/amplification dos attacks that use DNS by making DNS more complex / adding mutual authentication so it's not possible for A to request something that is then sent to B.

Re:The novel HTTP/2 'Rapid Reset' DDoS attack by LK5ZJwMwgBbHuVI on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @03:58PM (#37836701)
We could have prevented the replay/amplification dos attacks that use DNS by making DNS use TCP.

In practice though the only way to "fix" DNS that would've worked in the 80s would've probably been to require the request be padded to larger than the response...

Re:The novel HTTP/2 'Rapid Reset' DDoS attack by smallnix on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @05:24PM (#37837749)
But TCP is way more complex
Re:The novel HTTP/2 'Rapid Reset' DDoS attack by LK5ZJwMwgBbHuVI on Monday October 16, 2023 @04:31PM (#37906125)
... yeah? I know? "In practice though the only way to "fix" DNS that would've worked in the 80s would've probably been to require the request be padded to larger than the response..."

It's not as complex as some "mutual authentication" scheme though lmao

Re:The novel HTTP/2 'Rapid Reset' DDoS attack by aflag on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @06:20PM (#37838454)
I'm also from 1983 and I haven't been DDoSed
Re:The novel HTTP/2 'Rapid Reset' DDoS attack by kiitos on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @04:18PM (#37836919)
DNS is an enormous protocol, almost unmeasurably large.
Re:The novel HTTP/2 'Rapid Reset' DDoS attack by mcesch on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @07:49PM (#37839252)
That's a bit overblown. There's a lot there and some of it conflicts with itself but it's not unmeasurably large by any means. It's a knowable protocol (and yes, I'm aware of the camel meme[1]).

1. https://powerdns.org/dns-camel/

Re:The novel HTTP/2 'Rapid Reset' DDoS attack by kiitos on Wednesday October 11, 2023 @09:29PM (#37852446)
Quiz: which RFCs do you need to know and implement to implement DNS?
Re:The novel HTTP/2 'Rapid Reset' DDoS attack by londons_explore on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @03:02PM (#37836076)
HTTP/2 is pretty small.
Re:The novel HTTP/2 'Rapid Reset' DDoS attack by liveoneggs on Wednesday October 11, 2023 @04:44PM (#37850025)
QUIC didn't account for amplification attacks in its design and the people complaining about it were initially dismissed.