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Re:Bill to Ban Hidden Fees in California Signed into Law by JumpCrisscross on Monday October 09, 2023 @05:14AM (#37818506)
> Really don't see how any of the points above are an obstacle to putting the ~actual~ price of a product on paper

The pieces of paper are in multiple places. The bill is calculated in one place. Doing things in multiple places is more costly and error prone than doing it in one. (Also, the paper being physical means a physical person must update it. The POS can be remotely managed.)

Here is New York State's guide on clothing and footwear taxes [1]. (It's particularly well documented.) If any one of those counties makes a change, you're now proposing someone run through the entire store to update the affected labels or else risk lying about the price. That's manageable for a multinational. It's bonkers for a small shop owner. Instead, their POS is remotely updated (worst case, they get a bulletin to punch in a code) and when the barcode is scanned, the system figures out whether it's $110 or less and if it's really a costume or not.

If consumers valued it, tax-inclusive pricing might be worth the effort. But in America, we don't. The number isn't big enough, and I'm swiping or tapping either way. (Cash-only stores do tend to be tax inclusive, at least in New York, but that's because they're usually not paying the whole tax.) As I said, I can't remember finding it helpful when I travel to tax-inclusive priced countries. Surprising as it may seem, this really is simply a cultural preference. No right answer.

[1] https://www.tax.ny.gov/pdf/publications/sales/pub718c.pdf

Re:Bill to Ban Hidden Fees in California Signed into Law by PeterStuer on Monday October 09, 2023 @07:26AM (#37819221)
The store knows what to charge, they chose not to put it on the shelf label. When prices change, people change the shelf label, whether it is paper or ePaper tags is irrelevant to having the tax added in or not. What seems 'bonkers' to you has been standard practice in most of the world for decades.
Re:Bill to Ban Hidden Fees in California Signed into Law by JumpCrisscross on Monday October 09, 2023 @08:03AM (#37819521)
> When prices change, people change the shelf label

This isn't free. That's someone's time and energy spent on something I, as the consumer, don't care about. Why? I'd much rather have that person available to help, ready at the counter or frankly at home or in a park enjoying their life.

What has meaning for you doesn't for me. I don't value having a precise price at selection versus purchase. At all. Like most Americans. That doesn't mean I don't see the value in your argument, just that I reject it as something that matters to me.

> What seems 'bonkers' to you has been standard practice in most of the world for decades

Not remotely comparable in terms of rulebook complexity. Also, income: if you want to find tax-inclusive round pricing in America, go to impoverished neighborhoods. There, every nickel counts and folks pay cash--it makes sense to spend the effort to precisely message pricing ex ante.

Also, in most of the world posted prices either aren't a thing or are completely negotiable. Haggling at the point of sale isn't a thing in day-to-day America.

Re:Bill to Ban Hidden Fees in California Signed into Law by hot_gril on Monday October 09, 2023 @09:05PM (#37827467)
I concede that my other comment saying "there's no reason for it not to be [included in the price]" is inaccurate, cause this is a reason. But also, how often does sales tax change that this is a real issue?
Re:Bill to Ban Hidden Fees in California Signed into Law by noahtallen on Monday October 09, 2023 @09:05PM (#37827471)
The workers at a grocery store are already spending time setting and changing price labels across the store on a regular basis. (Such as for the many changing sales most stores have.) They often have a digital, hand-held label printer. It would be extremely simple for that printer to just print the local sales tax on the label.

Not to mention the vast amount of online shopping Americans do, where it would be trivial to include a local sales tax. (Every online store I'm aware of already immediately asks for your location and tells you to search for the nearest location anyways.)

I also reject the idea that most Americans wouldn't value this. I would bet money most Americans would prefer it -- they just aren't aware that other countries are capable of doing things better.

Re:Bill to Ban Hidden Fees in California Signed into Law by ramblenode on Monday October 09, 2023 @10:52PM (#37828039)
> This isn't free.

It's not free but it is negligible relative to routine relabelling. How many times do you think the tax rate changes per year? Maybe twice, at most, if the government budget is facing some major upheaval. More likely is every few years. Compared to the number of times the store will put things on sale or change the prices, that is negligible.

Re:Bill to Ban Hidden Fees in California Signed into Law by ramblenode on Monday October 09, 2023 @10:44PM (#37828000)
> If consumers valued it, tax-inclusive pricing might be worth the effort. But in America, we don't.

That's not true. I would guess the vast majority of consumers would at least slightly prefer that the tax be included in the display price. The problem is those consumers aren't an organized interest group, whereas retailers are. It's not a "cultural preference"--it's just the inability of the political system to address large but diffuse problems.

Re:Bill to Ban Hidden Fees in California Signed into Law by AlchemistCamp on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @01:53PM (#37835226)
I sincerely doubt that. I prefer to know how much of the price is from taxes because of transparency, as I mentioned in another comment on this thread.

Furthermore, literally everywhere I’ve lived in America, I had 3+ local sales tax rates within my typical shopping range and it’s nice to know which areas have lower rates so I can preferentially make larger shopping trips there.

Re:Bill to Ban Hidden Fees in California Signed into Law by Sabinus on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @07:45PM (#37839219)
>I prefer to know how much of the price is from taxes because of transparency, as I mentioned in another comment on this thread.

In the current system, to get that information you have to compare the label cost to the cost you paid. How is that more simple and convenient than looking up sales taxes in your area, or mandating they be displayed on labels in addition to price?

Re:Bill to Ban Hidden Fees in California Signed into Law by graftak on Wednesday October 11, 2023 @02:45AM (#37841677)
Sales tax is always printed on the receipt so it’s glanceable, often it is itemised too as product types might fall into varying tax brackets.