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Re:Driver hits woman in S.F., then Cruise driverless car run... by JumpCrisscross on Tuesday October 03, 2023 @10:59AM (#37752825)
> Self driving cars are in accidents much more frequently than human drivers

Source? (I’ll believe it for Cruise.)

> human drivers can't comprehend or anticipate a driverless car hitting the brakes for no apparent reason

Human drivers tailgate. If you have a safe cushion in front of you, an erratic stop won’t cause a collision.

Re:Driver hits woman in S.F., then Cruise driverless car run... by meristohm on Tuesday October 03, 2023 @11:09AM (#37752941)
Yeah, the tailgating makes no sense unless preparing to pass. When I catch myself doing it it's because I'm emotional and feeling rushed, and I take a breath and remind myself to back off until it's safer to pass.

During a freeway slowdown I try to dampen the brake-waves by going slow and not braking so much, but if I leave too much space in front of me (for coasting), another driver moves in and we're back to playing accordion.

If all cars could sync up and move together like train cars on the freeway there'd be less brake dust and more efficient travel, but then I'd rather take a train anyway.

Re:Driver hits woman in S.F., then Cruise driverless car run... by cjwilliams on Tuesday October 03, 2023 @11:42AM (#37753382)
Heroic. I try to do this too but everyone I know thinks I'm being neurotic when I explain it to them. I still see so many people accelerating into stoplights/brake scenarios.
Re:Driver hits woman in S.F., then Cruise driverless car run... by nerdbert on Tuesday October 03, 2023 @12:02PM (#37753686)
> I still see so many people accelerating into stoplights/brake scenarios.

Every time I have to use the brake - rather than downshifting - for anything other than holding the car in place, makes me feel like I've committed a failure in planning and/or situational awareness.

Re:Driver hits woman in S.F., then Cruise driverless car run... by drewbug01 on Wednesday October 04, 2023 @08:15AM (#37764039)
My driver’s ed instructor explicitly framed it like this in class, and it’s made me a much better freeway driver.
Re:Driver hits woman in S.F., then Cruise driverless car run... by earthling8118 on Tuesday October 03, 2023 @11:59AM (#37753638)
I think it should be seen the other way around. Why should I have to stop moving, meaning using my brakes and subsequently the gas, just because the other drivers wanted to rush up to the light and wait? It's much easier for everyone if we do this smoothly
Re:Driver hits woman in S.F., then Cruise driverless car run... by lsaferite on Wednesday October 04, 2023 @02:50PM (#37769829)
All those people you caused to miss a left turn light because you didn't feel the need to clear the turn-lane entry, because you wanted to keep slow-rolling, are cursing you. I have had that exaqct situation more times that I can count and every time I get angry at the other drive who thought "Why should I have to stop moving".
Re:Driver hits woman in S.F., then Cruise driverless car run... by lamontcg on Tuesday October 03, 2023 @07:01PM (#37758745)
> but if I leave too much space in front of me (for coasting), another driver moves in and we're back to playing accordion.

stop caring about this and just slowly back off a little more.

someone else will eventually leave your lane in front of you and make up for it.

Re:Driver hits woman in S.F., then Cruise driverless car run... by jqpabc123 on Tuesday October 03, 2023 @11:15AM (#37753024)
>>> Source? <<<

National Law Review (look it up or see associated link below).

>>> Human drivers tailgate. If you have a safe cushion in front of you, an erratic stop won’t cause a rear-end collision. <<<

That's the theory --- and the misinterpretation.

It's true that almost all human driver's tailgate at some point --- but they do so while being involved in half the accidents that self driving cars are --- 4.1 accidents per million miles versus 9.1 for driverless.

https://carsurance.net/insights/self-driving-car-statistics/

Re:Driver hits woman in S.F., then Cruise driverless car run... by JumpCrisscross on Tuesday October 03, 2023 @11:23AM (#37753121)
> National Law Review (look it up or see associated link below)

Your Carsurance source cites the National Law Review, which cites the Carsurance source for that statistic [1]. It’s important to consider from when they polled data and how they’re segregating by manufacturer.

EDIT: Found the study [2]. It’s for 2012 to 2015. Given these are decade-old data, I’m actually surprised the gap is only 2x while fatality and injury rates were already lower.

[1] https://www.natlawreview.com/article/dangers-driverless-cars

[2] http://websites.umich.edu/~umtriswt/PDF/UMTRI-2015-34.pdf

Re:Driver hits woman in S.F., then Cruise driverless car run... by JohnFen on Tuesday October 03, 2023 @11:41AM (#37753366)
> Human drivers tailgate. If you have a safe cushion in front of you, an erratic stop won’t cause a collision.

This is why in my state, if you rear-end someone then you are automatically presumed to be at fault. "They slammed on the brakes unexpectedly" is not a defense. You should have left adequate braking distance so that wouldn't cause an accident.

Re:Driver hits woman in S.F., then Cruise driverless car run... by limaoscarjuliet on Tuesday October 03, 2023 @11:42AM (#37753388)
Same in Europe
Re:Driver hits woman in S.F., then Cruise driverless car run... by bondarchuk on Tuesday October 03, 2023 @11:44AM (#37753413)
Downvoters need to stop tailgating.
Re:Driver hits woman in S.F., then Cruise driverless car run... by shortcake27 on Tuesday October 03, 2023 @12:06PM (#37753750)
I’m genuinely surprised “human drivers can't comprehend or anticipate a driverless car hitting the brakes for no apparent reason” is an argument people can relate to.

You absolutely should be expecting the driver in front to slam on the brakes at full force without warning. There’s an infinite number of things that could cause any driver - human or autonomous - to do this. If you drive without this expectation then you’re a very dangerous driver and I wouldn’t want to be anywhere near you on the road.

Re:Driver hits woman in S.F., then Cruise driverless car run... by standardUser on Tuesday October 03, 2023 @12:10PM (#37753812)
There seems to be a cabal of downvoters who, I assume, truly believe they are entitled to drive like complete jackasses.
Re:Driver hits woman in S.F., then Cruise driverless car run... by wholesomepotato on Tuesday October 03, 2023 @12:38PM (#37754210)
It's fault of the person who didn't have enough room to stop. Full stop.

It doesn't change the fact though that human drivers don't slam the brakes out of the blue because their "AI" got confused about nothing in particular, and that it is dangerous.

Re:Driver hits woman in S.F., then Cruise driverless car run... by SftwrSvior81 on Tuesday October 03, 2023 @12:25PM (#37754037)
A lot of drivers tend to drive like assholes so this isn't too surprising.
Re:Driver hits woman in S.F., then Cruise driverless car run... by watwut on Wednesday October 04, 2023 @01:16AM (#37761087)
Slamming brakes for not reason IS being complete jackass. And if you do it frequently enough, you have no business being on road.
Re:Driver hits woman in S.F., then Cruise driverless car run... by drewbug01 on Wednesday October 04, 2023 @08:13AM (#37764022)
You are conflating “unexpectedly” with “no reason”. The parent comments said “unexpectedly.”

There is a world of difference in those word choices. Saying “no reason” certainly gives you an excuse to write a sanctimonious comment like this, but it’s misrepresenting what was said.

Re:Driver hits woman in S.F., then Cruise driverless car run... by SoftTalker on Tuesday October 03, 2023 @09:30PM (#37759837)
A common insurance fraud trick is to change lanes close in front of someone and then slam on your brakes to cause a rear-end collison, then file an injury claim for back or neck pain against the other driver. They don't have time to react but are presumed at fault. One of many reasons to have a dash camera in your car.
Re:Driver hits woman in S.F., then Cruise driverless car run... by shortcake27 on Wednesday October 04, 2023 @04:35AM (#37762469)
That doesn’t really have anything to do with what we’re talking about, but many of those types of accidents can also be avoided.

There’s a significant number of people who feel personally attacked by a car merging in front of them, despite the fact that a merging vehicle has right of way (in all countries I’ve ever driven in). There’s a video that keeps popping up on my Instagram where a car changes lanes, and the car behind has plenty of time to react and slow down slightly, but they instead crash into the merging vehicle intentionally without touching the brakes at all. Most of the comments side with the driver who caused the incident, not the merging vehicle who did nothing wrong.

Anyway, my point is, there are a lot of people who refuse to give space to merging vehicles, which increases the chance of these accidents happening (fraud or not).

If you put your ego aside and immediately back off when a vehicle in front merges, you’ll be far more likely to avoid this type of accident. Alternatively, if you tailgate a merging vehicle out of “principle” you’re just inviting an accident.