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Re:OnlyOffice: Free open source office suite with business p... by propogandist1 on Monday October 02, 2023 @02:47AM (#37734736)
we are already using US company products, who killed more people to grab their oil. Why do you care about Russians?
Re:OnlyOffice: Free open source office suite with business p... by ShadowBanThis01 on Monday October 02, 2023 @03:00AM (#37734817)
Funny, every time there's a comment like this, nobody has any examples of "grabbing their oil."
Re:OnlyOffice: Free open source office suite with business p... by hutzlibu on Monday October 02, 2023 @03:15AM (#37734893)
Trump: "we have the oil"

Otherwise this is a pretty meaningless debate, when we are talking about office software.

Re:OnlyOffice: Free open source office suite with business p... by throwaway50600 on Monday October 02, 2023 @04:55AM (#37735607)
He meant in Texas.
Re:OnlyOffice: Free open source office suite with business p... by ShadowBanThis01 on Tuesday October 03, 2023 @01:08AM (#37748187)
Re:OnlyOffice: Free open source office suite with business p... by markjonsona989 on Monday October 02, 2023 @05:08AM (#37735695)
US is literally occupying oil fields in Syria as we speak.
Re:OnlyOffice: Free open source office suite with business p... by angra_mainyu on Monday October 02, 2023 @05:55AM (#37736069)
Shhhh, we can't speak about that!
Re:OnlyOffice: Free open source office suite with business p... by ShadowBanThis01 on Monday October 02, 2023 @02:25PM (#37742342)
I absolutely believe in U.S. malfeasance; but if there's all this oil seizure going on, where's the payoff?
Re:OnlyOffice: Free open source office suite with business p... by ShadowBanThis01 on Tuesday October 03, 2023 @01:06AM (#37748177)
<crickets>
Re:OnlyOffice: Free open source office suite with business p... by baz00 on Monday October 02, 2023 @03:46AM (#37735054)
Whataboutism at its finest people!

They're all horrible. We know that. But this is about one particular country in context.

Re:OnlyOffice: Free open source office suite with business p... by concordDance on Monday October 02, 2023 @05:15AM (#37735747)
Its to make people consider why they're doing something and whether it's actually for the reasons they think by comparing to another situation where the same reasons hold but they didn't do the thing.

It can be a useful tool for figuring out your own feelings.

Re:OnlyOffice: Free open source office suite with business p... by taway1237 on Monday October 02, 2023 @05:40AM (#37735951)
The same reasons don't hold for me, because my country is friendly with USA and (currently) openly hostile to Russia. The same holds for most of the western world, so likely most of the HN readers. Nothing irrational in avoiding software controlled by your (country's) enemy.

There is also the emotional aspect that you dismiss. Using somebody's products, and especially paying for them, can be constructed as helping the company and thus indirectly helping the company's country. Not everyone wants to support the country they see as an aggressor. That's not contradictory too - many people in western countries are OK with helping the US, but very uneasy with helping Russia (reasons for this are a different topic).

Re:OnlyOffice: Free open source office suite with business p... by mardifoufs on Monday October 02, 2023 @07:54AM (#37737000)
Yes but that completely removes the weird moral high ground that some want to set. If you don't mind supporting an aggressor and an invader as long as they are not invading or attacking you, that's understandable in a way. I mean the US benefits Europe greatly. But crying (not saying you do that!) about whataboutism won't suddenly wash out that moral relativism and the precedent that was set 20 years ago. Obviously people will wonder why some lives seem to matter less than others.

It just goes to show that Europeans/westerners don't care about Iraqis, and they care about Ukrainians. Almost every other justification for the discrepancy between how Europeans reacted back in 2003 and how they did now is just rationalization or lack of perspective. Though maybe it's because I'm Muslim and arab so I'm pretty biased here. :)

(And no I'm not saying that the US is just like Russia or whatever. I'm just saying that Westerners are completely sheltered from the effects of their own foreign policy. There's no consequence from wars, interventionism etc and the effects are far away. America is a paradise compared to Russia, but it is still a superpower.)

Re:OnlyOffice: Free open source office suite with business p... by taway1237 on Monday October 02, 2023 @08:40AM (#37737323)
I... think I agree. Thanks for your calm and reasonable response.

I'm not ashamed to say that I care about the war in Russia more than others for mostly selfish reasons [1]:

* It's much easier for me to connect and empathise with people from another European country then with people from a distant culture (irrational reason) * It impacts me and my country much more directly (rational reason) * Countries need allies. Unfortunately it's necessary to side with at least one superpower. And it's politically wise to overlook friendly superpower crimes while loudly criticising enemy's. To clarify: in my opinion US is the "least evil" option, and the Russian state is the most harmful - but I'm obviously biased (i.e. if I was born in China I might think differently).

>It just goes to show that Europeans/westerners don't care about Iraqis, and they care about Ukrainians

100%. Funny you mention that, I wanted to bring it up as an example for my previous paragraph and then noticed the second part of your message. I understand the frustration of all the victims of recent wars and aggressions who suffered the same and the world largely stood back (at best, loudly condemned the attack and the news cycle moved on). No point in gaslighting them that their suffering was less important or less significant then Ukrainians.

[1] Of course I won't say this publicly. It's easy to misunderstand or intentionally misrepresent my message as a support for Russian invasion or worse. No point in harming my future career by saying one word too much.

Re:OnlyOffice: Free open source office suite with business p... by baz00 on Monday October 02, 2023 @05:40AM (#37735950)
I've been on the Internet long enough to know that a whataboutism post from a new user is not representing that situation.
Re:OnlyOffice: Free open source office suite with business p... by walteweiss on Monday October 02, 2023 @04:38AM (#37735460)
user: propogandist1 created: 1 hour ago karma: 7

Okay. I trust you. Why couldn’t you write ‘propagandist’ without mistake?