Acute, short-term issues don't prove anything. You can have too much money too.

Immigration has served NYC in particular extremely well, over centuries. Probably not a good example!

> Seems ridiculous to say its “false” that there are complications then offer some vague reference

The claim wasn't 'complications', but economic cost. And I already admitted I don't have the research in front of me.

Obviously, my claim wasn't everything is perfect all the time - a claim that applies to nothing in the world.

You'd have to prove the violence is single handledly due to immigration. And not just come up with correlation between place with high immigration and violence rate.

To jest, Monaco is 2/3 immigrants, I haven't heard many people complaining about violence.

> To jest, Monaco is 2/3 immigrants, I haven't heard many people complaining about violence.

I'd bet most of those are European immigrants, so immigrated from stable countries with good education standards. When we talk about immigrants causing problems we are talking about immigrants from low developed countries where many lacks education, like what happened in the refugee crisis.

So, the topic is not actually immigration but social disruption from low education society members.

I make the difference, as that's the same issue when you reunite a country that has long been under two different regimes. Or when you abolish slavery. Or when there's a rise in homelessness.

The other part of it is, putting the focus on refugees obscures the context of why these people are fleeing their country, and what we have to do with it. It's like discussing about the water leaking from the ceiling, without the context of where it comes from. Perhaps the upper floor getting flooded by leaking pipes merits a bit more thought, I don't know.

The rates in Sweden have been proven to be due to immigration---it is easy to look up and has been researched for years and years. Something like 70% of violent crime and over half of all crime come from people with migrant backgrounds. You shouldn't be allowed to just dismiss this or pretend no one has the data in a serious discussion.

You're saying something that looks close enough on the surface but is fundamentally different.

Crimes perpetuated by people of migrant background doesn't equate to immigration being the cause of these crimes. If we accept that rhetoric, violent crimes are overwhelmingly done by men, so being a men is the cause of violence, right ?

Men, especially young men, do commit violence more than women. Perhaps "being a men is the cause of violence" is not correct, but "being a man makes you much more likely to commit violence".

What is your point?

I think there is a difference between structured immigration programs to let skilled workers in, and giving people asylum. The outcome of letting in refugees who have the trauma of suffering (and maybe participating in) violence all their lives, living in countries that have had educational systems break down, etc will differ from letting in a few skilled workers.

Sure.

Yeah but what happens when it's only conservative governments that limit immigration to skilled workers, and when the left wing government comes into power they expand it to refugees, and economic migrants? Australia and Canada can have the right system, but it doesn't matter if it is being short circuited for short term political gain and ideological reasons

> You'd have to prove the violence is single handledly due to immigration

Are you serious? These bombings are all done by immigrants. That's the proof.

> And why is the mayor of New York City, a self-proclaimed sanctuary city, saying they cant handle more immigrants?

Being a sanctuary city simply means (fundamentally) not assisting the Federal government in enforcing immigration law (which, in the US, is a matter of Federal responsibility and power).

The current issue NYC is facing is that the city is paying for housing and services for these migrants (who, by my understanding, are asylum seekers)--which of course they don't do for normal immigrants who decide to make a life in New York.

I'm not sure if you've ever been to New York City, but it's a heavily immigrant city that simply wouldn't function without them--at all levels, from taxi drivers up to investment banks and, of course, tech.