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Re:FTC Sues Amazon for Illegally Maintaining Monopoly Power by newsclues on Tuesday September 26, 2023 @06:29PM (#37666654)
"This is the result of commoditizing 'starting a business' to the point of near-worthlessness in the bottom 50%+."

Is this not just a market effect of saturating the market with competition because suddenly running a business is comparatively easy (communications technology, platforms and existing logistics and production networks) to any other era.

I can probably start a company drop shipping crap on Amazon in a short amount of time with a smartphone from my bedroom. The barrier to entry has dropped, rather quickly.

Re:FTC Sues Amazon for Illegally Maintaining Monopoly Power by berniedurfee on Tuesday September 26, 2023 @07:55PM (#37667610)
Very similar to the music industry, where technology has made producing music so easy the market is growing by tens of millions of new songs every year.

The slices of pie are getting very thin indeed. Especially when there are only a few pie delivery services to choose from and they take their slice first.

Re:FTC Sues Amazon for Illegally Maintaining Monopoly Power by deepsun on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @01:18AM (#37670497)
In efficient market every business must have razor-thin margins, otherwise competitors squeeze into it.

Good fat margins are a result of an ineffective market.

Re:FTC Sues Amazon for Illegally Maintaining Monopoly Power by hnlmorg on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @02:18AM (#37670863)
So Amazon making good fat margins on every small business that sells on Amazon is demonstration of an ineffective market. And hence why the FTC are stepping in.
Re:FTC Sues Amazon for Illegally Maintaining Monopoly Power by deepsun on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @12:19PM (#37676975)
Comparing to Apple, Amazon margins are thin.
Re:FTC Sues Amazon for Illegally Maintaining Monopoly Power by hnlmorg on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @02:15PM (#37678820)
You’re basically comparing despots though. I dont see how this furthers the discussion any.
Re:FTC Sues Amazon for Illegally Maintaining Monopoly Power by hellojesus on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @04:21PM (#37680715)
What? Amazon is offering lower prices to consumers, which is why they're winning business.

If other competitors could get their costs as low or lower than Amazon's, then they could enjoy those margins themselves.

Re:FTC Sues Amazon for Illegally Maintaining Monopoly Power by hnlmorg on Friday September 29, 2023 @02:39AM (#37700070)
I cannot speak for every location, but Amazon isn’t the cheapest in the UK. I would say it is about average.

Where Amazon wins is the range of stock and its next day deliveries. Which means most people default to Amazon because it’s quicker and easier than shopping around. But you can definitely get cheaper if you were to shop around.

Re:FTC Sues Amazon for Illegally Maintaining Monopoly Power by hellojesus on Friday September 29, 2023 @12:38PM (#37706703)
I agree fully, but Amazon is still the "cheapest" when you consider the all in price of cost_of_goods+cost_of_delivery|want_goods_in_fewer_than_two_days.

Amazon has the most efficient business, which allows them to survive on lower margins and attract buyers because of the vertically integrated pipeline they've created.

Your example of other companies selling the same product at cheaper prices helps to illuminate the fact that there isn't any real impact from the supposed anti-competitive behavior to the consumer. Cheaper prices still exist! Amazon hasn't become the sole provider.

Re:FTC Sues Amazon for Illegally Maintaining Monopoly Power by hnlmorg on Friday September 29, 2023 @01:40PM (#37707681)
> I agree fully, but Amazon is still the "cheapest" when you consider the all in price of cost_of_goods+cost_of_delivery|want_goods_in_fewer_than_two_days.

Why say you agree when you only go on to disagree with me?

I've bought plenty of things cheaper on other sites. Delivery included. There have been things that were cheaper on Amazon as well. This is why I said it's about average. But there are so many variables at play here (location, items you're looking to purchase, etc) that it might just be easier to agree to disagree.

> Amazon has the most efficient business, which allows them to survive on lower margins and attract buyers because of the vertically integrated pipeline they've created.

Those vertically integrated pipelines come with significant cost savings though. That's why they do it. And because it saves them $$$, it then also increases their margins.

> Your example of other companies selling the same product at cheaper prices helps to illuminate the fact that there isn't any real impact from the supposed anti-competitive behavior to the consumer. Cheaper prices still exist! Amazon hasn't become the sole provider.

Those two arguments aren't mutually inclusive. Other companies might be offering cheaper prices but making a loss in the hope that loyalty will win customers in the long run. Or other corners might get cut that could ultimately lead to that businesses demise, such as not hiring skilled staff, not following health and safety or other local laws, etc. And even if none of the aforementioned is true, it still doesn't mean that Amazon aren't being anti-competitive.

Also "anti-competitive behaviour" applies to how they block other businesses from competing. You cannot be "anti-competitive to the consumer"

Re:FTC Sues Amazon for Illegally Maintaining Monopoly Power by berniedurfee on Saturday September 30, 2023 @08:37PM (#37721372)
Yeah, that’s really the anti-competitive part. The vertical integration is so incredibly difficult to compete against.

At some point you have no choice but to give them a slice of your revenue and some control of your product, lest your access to customers is severely limited.

Kinda like app stores.

Re:FTC Sues Amazon for Illegally Maintaining Monopoly Power by SenAnder on Tuesday September 26, 2023 @11:16PM (#37669531)
Amazon inflating rates after capturing the market, permitting counterfeits, and penalizing sellers offering lower prices off-Amazon, has nothing to do with market efficiency or commoditization.
Re:FTC Sues Amazon for Illegally Maintaining Monopoly Power by starluz on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @01:07AM (#37670427)
Not saying it’s right but this has been their business model from day one back when it was just books
Re:FTC Sues Amazon for Illegally Maintaining Monopoly Power by midoridensha on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @04:23AM (#37671713)
There should be some tough laws against selling counterfeits, with harsh penalties.
Re:FTC Sues Amazon for Illegally Maintaining Monopoly Power by reuben364 on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @06:57AM (#37672900)
Simultaneously, there must be harsh penalties for abusing that system. See Samsung's use of a patent on display technology to label third party displays as counterfeits, despite not using that patent nor misrepresenting themselves as Samsung screens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A002AesVaFk

Re:FTC Sues Amazon for Illegally Maintaining Monopoly Power by hellojesus on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @04:24PM (#37680743)
> and penalizing sellers offering lower prices off-Amazon

Why shouldn't they be allowed to do this? If you want to sell on their market, you promise not to undercut them.

Amazon exists as a discovery tool for consumers. They don't want third party sellers to get free advertising. That isn't anticompetitive.

Re:FTC Sues Amazon for Illegally Maintaining Monopoly Power by SenAnder on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @06:31PM (#37682321)
You've explained what gives Amazon the leverage to set such terms, and why they'd want to set such terms, but you haven't explained why preventing other platforms/sellers from competing on price isn't anti-competitive - you merely asserted that it is so.
Re:FTC Sues Amazon for Illegally Maintaining Monopoly Power by hellojesus on Thursday September 28, 2023 @02:25PM (#37693606)
It's not anticompetitive because they aren't restricting competition off their platform. They are simply stating that to participate in their marketplace you must adhere to a set of rules.

It is no different than Nike, who requires no discounts on specific products, etc. Amazon isn't prohibiting selling on non-Amazon platforms. Amazon is prohibiting undercutting them if you choose to sell with them.

How is that anti-competitive?

Re:FTC Sues Amazon for Illegally Maintaining Monopoly Power by SenAnder on Thursday September 28, 2023 @03:28PM (#37694528)
> It's not anticompetitive because they aren't restricting competition off their platform.

Yes, they are. They are using their influence and market power to prevent others from competing on price, using the threat of economic retribution on their platform. If this isn't anti-competitive, then nothing short of sending assassins on your competitors is.

Re:FTC Sues Amazon for Illegally Maintaining Monopoly Power by hellojesus on Thursday September 28, 2023 @05:20PM (#37696035)
Nonsense. They are only able to influence your behavior if you use them. It is completely self selected.

It is the exact same thing as is argued by social media companies: they have the right to moderate the content posted on their platforms because it's their platforms. You can do whatever you want on your own site.

Re:FTC Sues Amazon for Illegally Maintaining Monopoly Power by SenAnder on Thursday September 28, 2023 @05:49PM (#37696355)
> They are only able to influence your behavior if you use them.

Yes, companies cannot influence behavior of people or businesses that have no business relationship with them, direct or indirect. In other words, you are saying that indeed, the only anti-competitive action is sending armed thugs to sabotage your competition. Everything else, every contractual condition, is fair game.

Re:FTC Sues Amazon for Illegally Maintaining Monopoly Power by hellojesus on Thursday September 28, 2023 @06:26PM (#37696708)
> the only anti-competitive action is sending armed thugs to sabotage your competition

I'm saying that entering a voluntary transaction knowing the terms of the trade does not amount to anti-competitive behavior. Nobody forced you into the trade. Nobody prohibited you from entering the trade.

Entering the trade with clear conditions is voluntary. You could easily just not do business with that partner. Here that would be not using Amazon's marketplace.

Re:FTC Sues Amazon for Illegally Maintaining Monopoly Power by SenAnder on Thursday September 28, 2023 @09:53PM (#37698391)
> I'm saying that entering a voluntary transaction knowing the terms of the trade does not amount to anti-competitive behavior.

You do realize that, by this definition, nothing short of fraud or forcing someone into a contract at gunpoint, could qualify as anti-competitive?

Re:FTC Sues Amazon for Illegally Maintaining Monopoly Power by hellojesus on Friday September 29, 2023 @12:33PM (#37706641)
Yes. I am a free market enthusiast.
Re:FTC Sues Amazon for Illegally Maintaining Monopoly Power by xphilter on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @08:39AM (#37673769)
Running a business being easy is limited to these low-value drop-ship businesses. Running an actual business is hard. What they’re doing is just arbitrage: buying in bulk from Ali Baba and selling individually on Amazon. No value would be lost if these companies went away. Compare that to a bookstore or cafe being closed in your town.