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Re:The Gruesome Story of How Neuralink’s Monkeys Died by refurb on Friday September 22, 2023 @05:35AM (#37609894)
Maybe it's my background in medical devices, but none of this seems gruesome.

Infections, wounds bleeding, broken devices, complications from brain implants like bleeding or brain damage. These are certainly bad outcomes, but I wouldn't say unexpected or something you wouldn't see with other animal tests for medical devices.

Keep in mind this description comes from Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine which seeks to abolish animal testing entirely. Not an unbiased source.

If Musk's company were doing this alone, I might assume something bad is happening, but it's not, the tests are done in partnership with "California National Primate Research Center (CNPRC), a federally funded bioresearch facility at UC Davis".

I'd find it hard to believe a government run, non-profit center which are experts in primate research (and operating within a public university) aren't follow laws around animal testing and appropriate care and effort to prevent suffering.

Re:The Gruesome Story of How Neuralink’s Monkeys Died by johnnyworker on Friday September 22, 2023 @05:46AM (#37609964)
Gruesome means gruesome, not unexpected or rare.

Also, what do you mean by "this description"? It's an investigation by WIRED, there are many sources in this article, and quite a lot of "this description" is simply quoting staff notes.

Re:The Gruesome Story of How Neuralink’s Monkeys Died by emmet on Friday September 22, 2023 @06:34AM (#37610290)
Fucking grim that you can read about monkeys being stabbed in the brain with metal pins and ultimately dying and just shrug your shoulders, then complain about people who'd like to stop killing animals for a billionaire's vanity project. A great way to prevent suffering is to not do things like this in the first place. Psychopath behaviour.
Re:The Gruesome Story of How Neuralink’s Monkeys Died by Zetobal on Friday September 22, 2023 @07:59AM (#37610841)
Probably the TheGreaterGood™ excuse.
Re:The Gruesome Story of How Neuralink’s Monkeys Died by emmet on Friday September 22, 2023 @08:25AM (#37611079)
Can’t wait until the greater good of downloading racist tweets directly into your brain
Re:The Gruesome Story of How Neuralink’s Monkeys Died by refurb on Friday September 22, 2023 @10:06AM (#37612239)
You sound unhinged.

I've worked in labs that do animal testing. It's not done unless there are no alternatives. Animals are very well taken care of and every attempt is made to eliminate any pain or suffering.

But hey, if you're so against animal testing you should stop using anything that's been testing on an animal. That would be the logical thing. So no cancer drugs, no antibiotics, or practically any other medical.

Then you can tell me how "useless the suffering is"

Re:The Gruesome Story of How Neuralink’s Monkeys Died by Capricorn2481 on Saturday September 23, 2023 @10:57AM (#37623829)
We're talking about a brain implant so a billionaire can stuff your brain full of SaaS. We're not talking about cancer drugs. Nobody is advocating against animal testing, we're exercising discretion over what is worth testing on animals.
Re:The Gruesome Story of How Neuralink’s Monkeys Died by refurb on Saturday September 23, 2023 @10:32PM (#37629634)
If you bothered to google the goal of Neuralink you'd realize it's "enabling people with paralysis to control external devices with their thoughts".

I don't know about you, but that sounds like a very worthwhile goal.

Re:The Gruesome Story of How Neuralink’s Monkeys Died by foverzar on Saturday September 23, 2023 @12:21PM (#37624643)
> you can read about monkeys being stabbed in the brain with metal pins and ultimately dying and just shrug your shoulders > Psychopath behaviour

Meet a typical medical student. Ever opened an anatomic atlas?

Please don't condescendingly diagnose other people for "psychopathic behavior" when you don't seem to be able to figure out the basic functioning of your fellow human, hastily dehumanizing them.

Re:The Gruesome Story of How Neuralink’s Monkeys Died by Capricorn2481 on Friday September 22, 2023 @06:38AM (#37610313)
> I'd find it hard to believe a government run, non-profit center which are experts in primate research (and operating within a public university) aren't follow laws around animal testing and appropriate care and effort to prevent suffering.

There are barely any laws around this for animals

Re:The Gruesome Story of How Neuralink’s Monkeys Died by refurb on Friday September 22, 2023 @10:02AM (#37612197)
This is why I love coming to HN.

I get to read comments like this - definitive statements that are 100% false.

There are a ton of laws around animal testing. If you want to run an experiment like this you need to go through hundreds of pages of regulations to make sure you follow all of them. Then you need to go in front of a board who will make you justify the work (only allowed if there is no alternative), and discuss at length exactly what you will do to the animals, what you will do if things go wrong, how you will monitor their health, what you will do with the animal once the experiment is done. All the while you need to show you are doing you best to alleviate any suffering, including administration of anesthetics and pain killers.

Re:The Gruesome Story of How Neuralink’s Monkeys Died by Capricorn2481 on Saturday September 23, 2023 @10:55AM (#37623815)
Let me rephrase this since you're ignoring the context of this conversation. Relative to human testing, there are not a lot of laws around animal testing, which a lot of people find abhorrent.
Re:The Gruesome Story of How Neuralink’s Monkeys Died by refurb on Saturday September 23, 2023 @10:30PM (#37629624)
Relative to human testing, there are not a lot of laws around animal testing

This is also false.

There is a very comprehensive law outlining the laws around animal testing along with hundreds of pages of regulations that go into exquisite detail on what animal testing is allowed and what efforts have to be put forth to minimize pain and suffering.

Re:The Gruesome Story of How Neuralink’s Monkeys Died by lgvln on Friday September 22, 2023 @07:43AM (#37610714)
Can you elaborate more on why you think “none of this seems gruesome”? To most people, experimentation on animals that results in such unthinkable suffering is abhorrent. Is such practices simply “the norm”?

Besides that, the central argument of the article is it disputes the Neuralink/Musk’s claim that “the monkeys died due to unforeseen complications”. Instead, what seems more likely is Neuralink experiments were directly responsible for the gruesome deaths of their test subjects. None of what you wrote addresses or refutes the evidence presented in the article.