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Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by judge2020 on Monday September 18, 2023 @03:55PM (#37561134)
> Finally, the new Tailscale client allows an Apple TV to be an exit node itself for other machines in your tailnet.

Pretty huge. Many non-techy users don't like the idea of keeping a computer on 24/7, but a smart TV is just fine.

Also, the Apple TV 4k only draws 0.5 watts at idle and less than 3 watts when streaming movies[0], so I imagine it pulls less than 1 just tunnelling traffic. Computers pull 15W+ at idle, and that's with low end components.

0: https://www.apple.com/environment/pdf/products/appletv/Apple...

Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by lnxg33k1 on Monday September 18, 2023 @04:26PM (#37561544)
So far I’ve used it to get vpn on apple tv and i dont think i am going to change, also considering how apple leaks vpns like there’s no tomorrow https://www.amazon.nl/GL-iNet-GL-MT300N-V2-Reiserouter-Repea...
Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by close04 on Monday September 18, 2023 @05:13PM (#37562146)
Can second the recommendation for the Mango travel router. I always prefer to take the VPN out of the “hands” of the client device to avoid any leaks. With 2 such devices connected via Wireguard VPN any other device I connect to that client router’s WiFi is safely communicating through that VPN.

But of course this is a different use case and not always an option. Not if you want to use Tailscale. Probably unless that Apple TV is already connected to one of this “VPN WiFi” with Tailscale on top (no idea what the functionality or performance impact is).

Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by matthewaveryusa on Monday September 18, 2023 @08:27PM (#37564191)
Don't know about the mango, but the gl.inet I have works with tailscale (albeit still in beta) https://www.gl-inet.com/products/gl-axt1800/
Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by sda2 on Tuesday September 19, 2023 @10:03AM (#37570084)
also seems to work with 'tailscale up --advertise-exit-node' if you ssh into the router instead of using admin console.
Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by addsubtract on Tuesday September 19, 2023 @11:50AM (#37571729)
Ordered one - I will be traveling and would be nice to switch exit nodes as needed while on the go. Not that I need to hide the fact I’m out of country, but seems like a good way to connect up the work laptop to appear on my home IP.

Anyone using glinet routers for that purposes and have any tips?

Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by close04 on Wednesday September 20, 2023 @07:17AM (#37582802)
I don’t use it for work but on every trip I am actually connecting “at home”. I have a WG server at home (you can use one glinet as an easy to configure VPN server) and a travel glinet as the client. Whenever I reach a hotel I connect the client glinet to the hotel hotspot (or cable), it connects to the home VPN, and all my devices connect to this client glinet WiFi and through that VPN tunnel. Everything is seamless with the only manual step being to connect the travel router to whatever internet pipe provided.

The Mango I have is on the slow side, specs say max 45Mbps over WG as a client, and I measured ~25Mbps when using a Mango as the server. But it’s tiny and very low power so perfect for travel.

Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by matthewaveryusa on Wednesday September 20, 2023 @09:25AM (#37583821)
Yes. I've traveled abroad and connected my work laptop to our home server through the glinet so I wouldn't need to deal with any hassle of having a foreign IP address even though I disclosed my location to my employer. In fact I keep my work gear always connected to the glinet, even at home.

No tips, it just works, but test it out before you leave for your trip!

Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by telotortium on Monday September 18, 2023 @07:53PM (#37563862)
Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by jondwillis on Monday September 18, 2023 @04:13PM (#37561377)
Neat, maybe I can sell my M1 mini server
Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by 8fingerlouie on Tuesday September 19, 2023 @02:21AM (#37566231)
Nah, you'll still need that to synchronize iCloud content locally so that you can make backups of it, as Apple stubbornly refuses to allow TimeMachine (or anything else) to actually backup stuff that is only stored in iCloud, and provies no easy, scriptable way, of doing so otherwise.

It may just be a problem for me, but as i have ~3TB of photos in iCloud (2 x 2TB), and unless i want to buy laptops with 2TB storage, there is no practical way of backing up the contents of iCloud, so i use a Mac Mini M1 with an external drive, syncrhonize data locally, and then back it up from there.

Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by yardstick on Tuesday September 19, 2023 @03:16AM (#37566603)
I need to backup my iCloud data soon too. How sure are you that the data is all downloaded from the cloud when you copy it to the external drive?

Do you use any special tools?

Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by 8fingerlouie on Tuesday September 19, 2023 @05:01AM (#37567221)
I just configure each users account on the Mac Mini to download everything from iCloud, and then backup each users directory.

It does require each user to login again every time the mac mini is rebooted, but fortunately that only happens when new releases come around, so 3-4 times every year.

I do periodically check if new photos have been downloaded. I care less about documents as the relevant documents are more likely to also be stored on the laptops, and thus backed up through the normal backup routine on the laptops.

I do wish Apple would come up with a solution to this problem though. The official instructions[1] feels like something from 2003.

[1]: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204055

Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by joshspankit on Tuesday September 19, 2023 @09:11AM (#37569463)
> I do wish Apple would come up with a solution to this problem though.

That wish is in the opposite direction of Apple’s brand identity: “let us handle everything for you with our white glove service [you can pay, right?]”

Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by 8fingerlouie on Wednesday September 20, 2023 @03:50AM (#37581559)
I would argue that it is exactly in line with Apple's brand identity.

Pretty much everybody agrees that you need to backup your cloud storage as well as your local computer, and Apple even backs up your i-devices to the cloud, and yet, there is no automated way of backing up your iCloud storage.

About a decade ago, Google initiated the Data Transfer Framework[1] that allows you to transfer data from one cloud provider to another, directly from provider to provider instead of downloading it first. It sadly appears to not have gotten enough traction to be of any use.

[1]: https://github.com/google/data-transfer-project

Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by joshspankit on Wednesday September 20, 2023 @08:05AM (#37583152)
> Pretty much everybody agrees that you need to backup your cloud storage as well as your local computer, and Apple even backs up your i-devices to the cloud

I don’t think I’ve ever seen Apple say that you need to back up your Apple Cloud data.

> I would argue that it is exactly in line with Apple's brand identity.

I’m not following you. Can you explain what you mean by that?

Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by 8fingerlouie on Thursday September 21, 2023 @02:18AM (#37593866)
> I’m not following you. Can you explain what you mean by that?

Usually when Apple does something, they make it so it "just works" and usually stays out of the way of the user. To bake iCloud backups into Time Machine would do just that, backup your cloud data without bugging you.

Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by tonyaiken on Tuesday September 19, 2023 @11:02AM (#37570917)
If it’s iCloud Photos you can try icloudpd, works pretty well from my Synology NAS
Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by tornato7 on Wednesday September 20, 2023 @11:20AM (#37585339)
Couldn't you expert icloud to Google photos and then use something like Google takeout to back that up?

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208514

Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by aaomidi on Monday September 18, 2023 @04:04PM (#37561250)
I had not convinced the use case of using this as an exit node. Fuck this simplified so much.
Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by copperx on Monday September 18, 2023 @04:16PM (#37561421)
Tailscale also runs on Android TV. If you don't have an Apple TV and want a cheap device just to have an exit node, you can buy a $20 Android TV thingy.
Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by vosper on Monday September 18, 2023 @05:07PM (#37562067)
Beware that a lot of cheap Android TV boxes come pre-loaded with heaps of malware. You don't want them in your network.

Linus Tech Tips has a video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vpepaQ-VQQ&themeRefresh=1

Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by copperx on Monday September 18, 2023 @07:09PM (#37563359)
That's true. However, Walmart's $20 Onn 4k Streaming Box has no malware, apparently.
Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by mjs on Monday September 18, 2023 @05:38PM (#37562439)
It … kind of does, but if you filter the reviews by "TV" you'll see there's quite a few issues with it: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tailscale..... Not sure why the back button issue hasn't been fixed, that makes it very inconvenient to set up. (Also: are you sure it can be used as an exit node? That wasn't supported a few months ago.)
Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by metadat on Monday September 18, 2023 @08:02PM (#37563932)
I abandoned the Google TV thingy because it was great when it was new a year or so ago, but now after all the updates it frequently stutters when playing media from Netflix, Disney+, HBO Max, etc. Apple TV is silky smooth and works perfectly.

At $200, it was 4x the price, though.

Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by icelancer on Monday September 18, 2023 @08:32PM (#37564236)
The expensive Nvidia Shield Pro is dogshit as well for streaming performance at $150-200. Ridiculous.
Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by johnmaguire on Monday September 18, 2023 @11:09PM (#37565199)
Works great for me?
Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by nirav72 on Tuesday September 19, 2023 @02:21PM (#37574004)
You're the first one I've read that has had issues with streaming performance on the Nvidia Shield. I have the non-Pro nvidia shield and its been rock solid for streaming external content and local content. Including 4k. I even ran it as a plex server for a while. Are you using wireless or plugged into ethernet?
Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by joshspankit on Tuesday September 19, 2023 @09:14AM (#37569501)
It’s most likely just because of new codecs. If you got a newer cheap device it would probably not stutter (until the next round of codecs, but Apple TV requires the same upgrades)
Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by metadat on Tuesday September 19, 2023 @09:42AM (#37569822)
I don't think so, x264 and x265 haven't changed in the past 12 months, or even the last 2+ years. My suspicion is Elgoog releases Android system updates without thoroughly testing them on existing released hardware.

My friends have Apple TVs that don't stutter, for 3+ years.

Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by joshspankit on Wednesday September 20, 2023 @07:58AM (#37583105)
If it were my machine I’d also investigate the audio streams. Audio decoding can be surprisingly heavy
Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by e12e on Monday September 18, 2023 @08:20PM (#37564127)
Why, apparently it finally does - since when? Last time I checked, I'd have to sideload it on my Nvidia shield?
Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by MuffinFlavored on Monday September 18, 2023 @06:54PM (#37563251)
> Many non-techy users

Why would a non-techy user want to volunteer to be an exit node?

Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by fragmede on Monday September 18, 2023 @06:59PM (#37563282)
This isn't Tor, being an exit node just means the non-techy user can access Netflix while travelling internationally.
Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by userbinator on Monday September 18, 2023 @11:39PM (#37565357)
Blame Tor for popularising the term "exit node" to mean "public proxy".

The terms "VPN gateway" or "VPN server" are still valid and less easily confused with Tor's use of "exit node".

Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by giobox on Tuesday September 19, 2023 @12:51PM (#37572710)
Yes and no... A VPN Gateway or VPN server doesn't have to be an exit node, and may route onwards to actual exit nodes. Some nodes may not "exit" at all - see setups where you are just trying to reach your private networks.

In a tailscale setup, an "exit node" has specific meaning and the term makes sense as far as I'm concerned:

https://tailscale.com/kb/1103/exit-nodes/

Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by Operyl on Monday September 18, 2023 @07:53PM (#37563870)
It’s not a public Tor exit node. It’s a personal node you can use to route your own traffic.
Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by giobox on Monday September 18, 2023 @07:54PM (#37563879)
I have setup Pis in family member homes to allow me to get residential IP VPN exit node in their respective countries - cheap and easy way to get access to foreign TV streaming services without a monthly fee. I used to run my own exit nodes in AWS/DigitalOcean in those regions, but virtually all streaming services block VPS/cloud service IPs at this point. Having an exit node in an actual "real" residential internet service is vastly more flexible.

This potentially would be even easier for me, given they all have Apple TVs already. This isn't a public exit node - it's only available to other users (i.e. people you know and have granted access to) of your own TailScale setup.

Same for non-techy folks who have second homes in foreign countries, or even just travel a lot - an Apple TV running this new app back in their main property will allow them for free to browse the web as if they are actually at their main property, including any TV services they enjoy.

Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by KoftaBob on Tuesday September 19, 2023 @04:00PM (#37575655)
So that when they're overseas, they can route their internet traffic through their Apple TV at home in the US, and any streaming service they use will think they're in the US and not give them trouble about "Hulu isn't available in your location".
Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by tiffanyh on Monday September 18, 2023 @08:40PM (#37564298)
How will this work?

My Apple TV constantly goes to sleep.

Is Tailscale doing some type of “busy wait” to prevent tvOS from going to sleep?

Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by crazygringo on Monday September 18, 2023 @08:45PM (#37564324)
You can change your Apple TV settings to not to go to sleep.
Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by angott on Monday September 18, 2023 @09:11PM (#37564519)
This is not really necessary, there is no need to change any settings. Even when the device enters sleep mode, VPN apps can remain active, just like on iOS.
Re:Apple TV, now with more Tailscale by lathiat on Monday September 18, 2023 @08:49PM (#37564355)
It’s not truly asleep. The display parts are but it’s always connected to wifi to act as a home hub, receive airplay requests, etc.