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Re:Ozempic Can Cause Major Loss of Muscle Mass and Reduce Bo... by NickC25 on Monday September 18, 2023 @01:06PM (#37558878)
Isn't the weight-loss "feature" of Ozempic a side-effect, and not the original primary target of the drug? I could (and very well probably am) be wrong here, but I thought it's original purpose was to moderate blood sugar levels, not cause the user to drop large amounts of weight quickly.

If so, I'm honestly not surprised at all. Magic bullets don't exist. If they do, they usually come with unforeseen side effects.

Re:Ozempic Can Cause Major Loss of Muscle Mass and Reduce Bo... by arcticbull on Monday September 18, 2023 @01:32PM (#37559233)
The, er, male enhancement "feature" of Viagra is a side-effect of its original use: blood pressure medicine.

It's only a side-effect if it's secondary or undesirable.

[edit] Or (setting aside the birth defects) curing multiple myeloma was a side-effect of thalidomide, which was originally given for morning sickness. And life extension is a promising potential side-effect of metformin.

Re:Ozempic Can Cause Major Loss of Muscle Mass and Reduce Bo... by chucksta on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:02PM (#37559635)
>It's only a side-effect if it's secondary or undesirable.

What is your point? that's the definition... A side effect of turning the light on is heat.

"A peripheral or secondary effect, especially an undesirable secondary effect of a drug or therapy."

Re:Ozempic Can Cause Major Loss of Muscle Mass and Reduce Bo... by GoofballJones on Monday September 18, 2023 @01:36PM (#37559278)
I'm currently on it and it was prescribed by my doctor for my diabetes. I just started it. Yes, the side effect may be weight loss for me, which will also directly help my diabetes in and of itself, but the weight-loss is only a side effect.

But since so many are using it JUST for weight-loss, which their insurance probably doesn't cover, I sometimes have to wait because it's sold out. So me, having a legit reason to be on it due to my diabetes, can't always get it because someone else wants it just to lose weight.

Re:Ozempic Can Cause Major Loss of Muscle Mass and Reduce Bo... by aantix on Monday September 18, 2023 @01:42PM (#37559358)
>just to lose weight

You mean they "just" want to reduce their blood pressure, reduce their cholesterol, reduce their glucose, reduce their chances of cancer, stroke, coronary heart disease, all the while moving easier, having more energy, and not feel embarrassed by their weight any longer.

Re:Ozempic Can Cause Major Loss of Muscle Mass and Reduce Bo... by Aaronstotle on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:21PM (#37559935)
Those people could also lift weights and eat less. Ozempic works because it makes people feel full and stop eating, to lose weight without Ozempic.

eat less and move more.

Re:Ozempic Can Cause Major Loss of Muscle Mass and Reduce Bo... by aantix on Monday September 18, 2023 @03:13PM (#37560634)
Taking Semaglutide gives an adherence advantage (with diet and exercise) vs. just diet/exercise alone.

There was a 16% weight loss for those that received semaglutide/diet/exercise/counseling versus a loss of 5% for placebo those that received diet/exercise/counseling without semaglutide.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33625476/

Re:Ozempic Can Cause Major Loss of Muscle Mass and Reduce Bo... by kthejoker2 on Monday September 18, 2023 @07:46PM (#37563794)
Spoken like someone who's never had an eating disorder. Thanks for the non-helpful "advice" that's obvious to everyone on the planet.
Re:Ozempic Can Cause Major Loss of Muscle Mass and Reduce Bo... by GoofballJones on Saturday September 30, 2023 @10:23PM (#37721957)
It's tantamount to people telling others with clinical depression to "just cheer up and stop feeling sorry for themselves. Have you tried not being depressed?"
Re:Ozempic Can Cause Major Loss of Muscle Mass and Reduce Bo... by AdamH12113 on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:13PM (#37559812)
You're talking about people who are medically obese, GP is talking about people who are consuming the limited supplies of a valuable drug because they want the optimal "beach body". They're not the same thing.
Re:Ozempic Can Cause Major Loss of Muscle Mass and Reduce Bo... by projectazorian on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:26PM (#37560002)
I don't think the medical bar for obesity is as high as you might think it is. A lot of people who you and I might regard as simply overweight if we saw them on the street are, in fact, obese according to the BMI criteria.

Moreover these drugs are not going to get people an "optimal beach body"; they might at best help to get weight in the range where work can start on that.

In fact for people at normal weight looking to improve their appearance these drugs would probably be counterproductive, for the reasons mentioned in the study. When the goal is to optimize for aesthetics a low body fat percentage is key. That requires a solid amount of muscle mass, and a drug regimen that catabolizes muscle is going to be counterproductive.

Re:Ozempic Can Cause Major Loss of Muscle Mass and Reduce Bo... by AdamH12113 on Monday September 18, 2023 @03:37PM (#37560924)
That is largely a sensible comment, but unfortunately none of what you're saying affects the actual demand for fad weight loss treatments. Look at the "alternative medicine" industry if you want to see how much demand there can be for products that literally have no effect on the body whatsoever. And there is certainly a very large demand for minor, purely cosmetic weight loss.
Re:Ozempic Can Cause Major Loss of Muscle Mass and Reduce Bo... by aantix on Monday September 18, 2023 @04:00PM (#37561199)
Over 2/3's of the American population falls in the overweight/obese category.

https://www.healthline.com/health/obesity-facts#statistics

It's probable that the demand is overwhelmingly coming from that large cohort. Which wouldn't be "cosmetic" weight loss.

Re:Ozempic Can Cause Major Loss of Muscle Mass and Reduce Bo... by projectazorian on Monday September 18, 2023 @04:18PM (#37561443)
If you have a normal BMI, no diabetes, and want Ozempic for aesthetic reasons you first have to find a willing prescriber - not easy although I'm sure there are shady online services out there.

Then you have to pay for the drug out of pocket, that's a 5 figure sum annually. You can get a nutritionist, personal trainer, and meal prep for less in a lot of the country. Oh yeah and it also requires injections, a lot of people hate needles.

As another poster pointed out, 2/3 of the country are overweight or obese. There's plenty of medically qualified patients around, no need to assume some epidemic of already-thin people taking Ozempic to try to get six-pack abs.

Re:Ozempic Can Cause Major Loss of Muscle Mass and Reduce Bo... by AdamH12113 on Monday September 18, 2023 @05:07PM (#37562072)
> If you have a normal BMI, no diabetes, and want Ozempic for aesthetic reasons you first have to find a willing prescriber - not easy although I'm sure there are shady online services out there.

You are wildly underestimating how many doctors are willing to prescribe medicines without a strong need. Have you heard of the opiod epidemic?

> Then you have to pay for the drug out of pocket, that's a 5 figure sum annually.

Unless you can convince your insurance company to pay for it -- say, with the help of a willing doctor. And even if you can't, there are a surprising number of people who will pay that kind of money for weight loss.

> You can get a nutritionist, personal trainer, and meal prep for less in a lot of the country.

You've been able to get those things for many years. They are not the same as an easy weight loss drug.

> As another poster pointed out, 2/3 of the country are overweight or obese.

The medical definition of "overweight" is quite broad, and clinically it's based on BMI, an extremely flawed measurement at an individual level. There are certainly plenty of people with a medical need for a weight loss drug! (I am one of them!) But there are also plenty of people who think they are ugly because they are 10-15 pounds over their "ideal" weight and have one little roll of belly fat. There is a strong tendency to medicalize this kind of problem. This is a pretty big part of American culture. Have you not encountered this before?

What I'm arguing here is that when a drug is in limited supply the people with an immediate need for it (diabetics) ought to take precedence over people who are worried about potential future health problems somewhere down the line (younger, mildly obese people), and that people who are mainly worried about cosmetics ought to wait for wider availability. I don't think that's controversial?

Re:Ozempic Can Cause Major Loss of Muscle Mass and Reduce Bo... by projectazorian on Monday September 18, 2023 @05:51PM (#37562577)
> You are wildly underestimating how many doctors are willing to prescribe medicines without a strong need. Have you heard of the opiod epidemic?

Opioids don't cost $10k+ a year out of pocket.

> Unless you can convince your insurance company to pay for it -- say, with the help of a willing doctor.

Even with "good insurance", it's quite difficult to get Ozempic covered for weight loss, even if you are obese - let alone normal weight or just overweight. Not speculating here, I know people who meet the criteria and have tried.

> You've been able to get those things for many years. They are not the same as an easy weight loss drug

Yes, and that's one of the many reasons why obesity rates are lower among the wealthy. I don't think that paying over $1k a month and getting weekly injections is especially "easy."

> What I'm arguing here is that when a drug is in limited supply the people with an immediate need for it (diabetics) ought to take precedence over people who are worried about potential future health problems somewhere down the line (younger, mildly obese people), and that people who are mainly worried about cosmetics ought to wait for wider availability. I don't think that's controversial?

What evidence do you have that this is not occurring? I see a lot of evidence that insurance companies are aggressively rationing Ozempic for non-diabetic patients - both in the news media and in my personal life. Many of those paying out of pocket for semaglutide are getting it from compounding pharmacies because they can't get access to the brand name drug, either due to cost or supply constraints.

Re:Ozempic Can Cause Major Loss of Muscle Mass and Reduce Bo... by AdamH12113 on Monday September 18, 2023 @07:14PM (#37563415)
I just went to the pharmacy and I am still unable to refill the prescription that I have been trying to get for a week to keep my actual diabetes under control, so you’ll have to pardon me if I don’t have the patience to argue this any more.
Re:Ozempic Can Cause Major Loss of Muscle Mass and Reduce Bo... by smileysteve on Monday September 18, 2023 @01:49PM (#37559439)
and reduce their chance of developing into diabetes.

(There is high correlation between overweight to obese to be pre-diabetic or undiagnosed/untreated diabetic)

Re:Ozempic Can Cause Major Loss of Muscle Mass and Reduce Bo... by zzzeek on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:00PM (#37559611)
i think the parent's point would be that most people can achieve all those things without using a drug (the cholesterol and BP parts are often chronically high for non-obese people but there are other medications for those things that target them more directly)
Re:Ozempic Can Cause Major Loss of Muscle Mass and Reduce Bo... by aantix on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:21PM (#37559933)
>can achieve

The longterm success number for those that lose significant weight and keep it off for many years, are abysmal.

Re:Ozempic Can Cause Major Loss of Muscle Mass and Reduce Bo... by zzzeek on Monday September 18, 2023 @05:03PM (#37562019)
sure, but my anecdotal hearsay unsubstantiated information on this is that people who are only a little bit over their ideal weight are using it so that they dont even need to apply modest efforts at staying healthy. People who are chronically morbidly obese are likely better off with the bariatric surgery approach.
Re:Ozempic Can Cause Major Loss of Muscle Mass and Reduce Bo... by aantix on Monday September 18, 2023 @06:20PM (#37562909)
There’s a huge cohort in between those two states.
Re:Ozempic Can Cause Major Loss of Muscle Mass and Reduce Bo... by AdamH12113 on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:08PM (#37559725)
Same. My A1C went down 1.5 points (7.9 -> 6.5) after I went on Ozempic with minimal behavior changes. I've also had trouble getting prescriptions filled because it's the hot new weight loss drug.
Re:Ozempic Can Cause Major Loss of Muscle Mass and Reduce Bo... by CyberDildonics on Monday September 18, 2023 @05:10PM (#37562103)
You could always just stop eating sugar
Re:Ozempic Can Cause Major Loss of Muscle Mass and Reduce Bo... by GoofballJones on Saturday September 30, 2023 @10:25PM (#37721967)
Oh, good lord, why didn't I think about that?!?! WOW! Hey everyone, just stop eating sugar! CyberDildonics has solved it! Collect your Nobel Prize in medicine!

/s

Re:Ozempic Can Cause Major Loss of Muscle Mass and Reduce Bo... by CyberDildonics on Tuesday October 03, 2023 @04:45PM (#37757303)
What is wrong with what I said? If you want to lose weight without a pill, stop eating sugar.
Re:Ozempic Can Cause Major Loss of Muscle Mass and Reduce Bo... by bookmark1231 on Monday September 18, 2023 @09:24PM (#37564614)
I highly doubt insurance would refuse to cover a medication that will almost certainly drastically lower their long term expenses
Re:Ozempic Can Cause Major Loss of Muscle Mass and Reduce Bo... by make3 on Monday September 18, 2023 @01:34PM (#37559248)
lots of pills are used for uses different from their original uses, & it's fine. see Viagra, that was supposed to be heart medication
Re:Ozempic Can Cause Major Loss of Muscle Mass and Reduce Bo... by briffle on Monday September 18, 2023 @01:56PM (#37559546)
Yes, and its been turned into a seperate, identical drug, Wegovy, with different dosages to target weight loss.
Re:Ozempic Can Cause Major Loss of Muscle Mass and Reduce Bo... by taylodl on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:28PM (#37560045)
Yes. Ozempic is a therapy for reducing A1C. The weight-loss and appetite suppression was a side effect. Generally speaking, weight loss is also good for lowering your A1C - so the side effect was a win.