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Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by sneak on Monday September 18, 2023 @08:41AM (#37555356)
You have to use a special "verbatim" search product from Google, it isn't the main search box anymore. Look under Advanced or something.
Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by Izkata on Monday September 18, 2023 @08:47AM (#37555404)
On the search results page, there's a "Tools" button in the upper-right that expands two dropdowns. Change "All results" to "Verbatim".
Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by robertlagrant on Monday September 18, 2023 @08:50AM (#37555429)
Wow, that's a good tip.
Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by dihydro on Monday September 18, 2023 @09:34AM (#37555895)
Here's a URL Link to the advanced search: https://www.google.com/advanced_search?hl=en&fg=1
Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by janlukacs on Monday September 18, 2023 @09:59AM (#37556215)
wow, thanks! how did you find this link? I don't see it anywhere in the main interface.
Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by late25 on Monday September 18, 2023 @10:22AM (#37556489)
I tried it and it looks like it does nothing but wrap my query in quotes… and then return non-exact results if not found. How is this any different than what people have historically done?
Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by Izkata on Monday September 18, 2023 @12:00PM (#37558027)
That isn't different, Verbatim search isn't on the advanced search page. You can only get to it from the search results page like in my earlier comment.
Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by Izkata on Monday September 18, 2023 @11:59AM (#37558014)
It's not on that page, you can only switch to Verbatim on the search results. OP was mistaken.
Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by zulban on Monday September 18, 2023 @08:54AM (#37555459)
I thought this was a joke.
Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by helboi4 on Tuesday September 19, 2023 @05:07AM (#37567273)
What it is like anti-user design. Why take away a decades long precedent to hide it in a menu?
Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by tda on Monday September 18, 2023 @09:21AM (#37555735)
Great tip! Seems like this adds the query param "&tbs=li%3A1", so this might be something you can configure as an extra search engine in firefox. But then I am a happy kagi customer, and I was just thinking that I can't recall the last time I had to do a !g to find something. For me, google search si pretty much dead. I only use it now when on someone else's pc
Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by chankstein38 on Monday September 18, 2023 @10:00AM (#37556235)
Sounds like a good case for an extension even! "Auto add this when I go to google"
Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by rbinv on Monday September 18, 2023 @11:02AM (#37557084)
You can also adjust your browser's search engine defaults.
Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by mannykannot on Monday September 18, 2023 @09:22AM (#37555741)
For now, this seems to work: https://www.google.com/advanced_search but, given the pace at which Google "improves" things, I don't have much hope that it will last.
Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by gniv on Monday September 18, 2023 @09:59AM (#37556206)
That page has been there forever. Here's the version from Dec 2000: https://web.archive.org/web/20001202041000/https://www.googl...
Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by jamal-kumar on Monday September 18, 2023 @09:40AM (#37555963)
Why would they make their very expected functionality something you have to dig around to find now? That just seems like really bad decision making that should have been spotted by someone on top and screams that the people on top are now disconnected from reality
Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by jplona on Monday September 18, 2023 @09:44AM (#37556020)
It's also possible they they're correct, and the average user of today has much less need for verbatim searches than the average user when the search engine was first designed.
Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by jamal-kumar on Monday September 18, 2023 @09:47AM (#37556072)
Nah their product is broken and I'm going to avoid using it from now on except when I need to find something on a map or mess around on SEO for work

If they break a key feature to MAKE a verbatim search happen with literally two keys pressed, and are apparently not even indexing what they used to anymore, they're dropping the ball. Most people know the quotation trick now and are probably assuming it still works

Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by Filligree on Monday September 18, 2023 @09:47AM (#37556064)
This is definitely the case. Sit down next to a casual user one day, and you'll find that 'verbatim' is the absolute last thing they need.
Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by devmor on Monday September 18, 2023 @10:37AM (#37556706)
This is almost certainly the case. Those of us who learned to use and mastered keyword-style search are the minority. Most people search whole phrases, expecting a contextual answer.
Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by JohnFen on Monday September 18, 2023 @10:53AM (#37556945)
The quality of search results I get from Google has seriously degraded over the past several years (I think about the time they decided to start interpreting my searches rather than just search for what I asked for). From my point of view, verbatim searches are more necessary now than ever before, to work around that issue.

I tried using verbatim searches to make Google decent for me again, but Google defines "verbatim" rather differently than I do.

Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by chankstein38 on Monday September 18, 2023 @09:59AM (#37556208)
Yeah, it's Google. I feel like, at this point, Google is basically synonymous with "bad decision"
Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by kuchenbecker on Monday September 18, 2023 @10:39AM (#37556741)
My guess (complete speculation, but I worked with the Search Quality folks about a decade ago):

1 - By interpreting your search, it leads to better "search quality" by having one model say "i think this is what they want" and another execute the search. P90 accuracy is increased at the cost of P99 accuracy.

2 - If you search for a literal string you know exists, you expect to find it. By interpreting, fewer search inputs with literal strings make it to the search function.

3 - Since Google is interpreting more searches, this gives ad-placement a route in to favorably interpret "they want to buy something" even when this isn't the case. This makes Google money.

4 - People that used to use literal searches either stop, learn how, or switch search engines.

5 - After a couple years, business metrics show that literal searches represent 0.1% of queries and make less money, is it really worth investing in? When it was a P99 issue it fell off the radar and now the P999 is lost.

So a series or rational decisions by rational actors leads to a decline of a used feature because of business incentives and chasing P90s at the cost of P99s.

Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by jamal-kumar on Monday September 18, 2023 @10:47AM (#37556851)
So they're basically just as good as some malware search engine that inserted itself into grandma's computer now

Fantastic

Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by effingwewt on Monday September 18, 2023 @11:23AM (#37557463)
At least those entertained people.

I couldn't get my fiancé's mother to stop re-installing bonzi buddy or whatever that toolbar was called because she 'loves the purple monkey, he's so cute!'

Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by jamal-kumar on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:18PM (#37559880)
Man that's crazy in the early 2000s I was volunteering with developmentally disabled adults and had to explain to them how bonzi was a 'bad monkey' and that he was 'not a friend' and they got it
Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by tivert on Monday September 18, 2023 @09:57AM (#37556187)
> You have to use a special "verbatim" search product from Google, it isn't the main search box anymore. Look under Advanced or something.

I actually use that, but it has its faults. You get more spam results and iffy sites (e.g. Wikipedia clones). It's also missing some of Google's convenient features (like doing unit conversions and arithmetic).

IIRC, Verbatim mode is closer to the raw results of Google's underlying search engine, before some of the massaging they do. Some of that massaging is bad, but some of it's all right.

Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by crazygringo on Monday September 18, 2023 @10:06AM (#37556291)
First of all, wow. It's there (under Tools, you don't even need to go to Advanced), it works, and yet I've never once seen anybody talk about that feature's existence on HN until now. And people have been complaining about not being able to do verbatim searches for years and years here on HN.

Second, I just looked up when this feature was introduced (assuming it was fairly new), and it was in... November 2011. It's been there for the past twelve years. See:

https://www.wired.com/2011/11/google-verbatim-search-back/

https://searchengineland.com/responding-to-complaints-google...

https://www.searchenginewatch.com/2011/11/18/google-introduc...

Thanks for letting us know! It's been right under our noses the whole time -- and it's not like the Tools menu is even particularly hidden, at least on desktop.

Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by marcosdumay on Monday September 18, 2023 @10:29AM (#37556591)
> I've never once seen anybody talk about that feature's existence on HN until now

Every time I tried it, it didn't work.

It certainly changed a lot on those years, but the reason nobody acknowledges it is probably because it's a coin-toss if Google wants "verbatim" to mean verbatim today.

Quotes actually stopped working (they became a hint, instead of filtering the results) a long time ago, and many people insisted for years that the verbatim search worked. Probably because those tried it on the days when Google decided to use a standard dictionary. Nowadays even those people gave-up.

Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by crazygringo on Monday September 18, 2023 @10:38AM (#37556723)
Can you (or anyone) supply an example where it doesn't?

I just tried a whole bunch of queries on seemingly generic-sounding sentences from old pages on niche blogs and it found every single one.

So I'd love to understand when it doesn't work and if there's some pattern -- like if certain punctuation trips it up, or if it's simply pages not indexed in the first place.

Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by marcosdumay on Monday September 18, 2023 @11:50AM (#37557882)
It didn't work for any query. A verbatim search was very similar to putting every word in quotes. That's very obviously not your experience, so it's either a personalization thing, or Google silently changed it. Anyway, there isn't a pattern to find, it works or it doesn't.

But then, I've seen it work too. And stop working again.

Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by crazygringo on Monday September 18, 2023 @12:08PM (#37558143)
OK, so you can supply any query then? Any example will do.

This is just about verifying the behavior, that it's not finding a verbatim result that it should. And it has nothing to do with personalization -- it's easy to run these logged out.

Also, "A verbatim search was very similar to putting every word in quotes" is not an example of it not working. The question isn't whether they're similar -- your claim was that it "didn't work", which I take to mean it was returning incorrect results.

Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by eindiran on Tuesday September 19, 2023 @12:20AM (#37565561)
I think OP's point is that this isn't a deterministic system for a given query. The feature flags set for the particular user (are you in the verbatim or no-verbatim branch of today's AB test), and the timestamp are also inputs.
Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by JohnFen on Monday September 18, 2023 @10:48AM (#37556869)
Yeah, I've never had much luck with verbatim search either.
Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by gniv on Monday September 18, 2023 @10:20AM (#37556456)
There's been lots of talk about it over the years: https://www.google.com/search?q=google+%22verbatim%22+site%3...

I think I also mentioned it a couple of times when the same complaint came up.

The problem I think is that "verbatim" is not a word that one thinks of, so nobody searches for that. Plus it's hidden in a generic "Tools" menu. Sometime you get a link to search for the exact phrase at the bottom of results, but that too is subtle.

Re:Ask HN: How to do literal web searches after Google destr... by gabrielsroka on Monday September 18, 2023 @11:54AM (#37557924)