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Re:Geographic ‘hot spots’ for cigarette and firearm deaths i... by XorNot on Sunday September 17, 2023 @07:29PM (#37550400)
Alcohol notably tends to quietly kill only yourself. Smoking affects everyone around you, firearms too.

Alcohol related non-drinker fatalities would be the relevant measure (and still too many, since it's going to be drink driving largely).

Re:Geographic ‘hot spots’ for cigarette and firearm deaths i... by catiopatio on Sunday September 17, 2023 @08:06PM (#37550683)
That’s not true for firearms. More people die from falling off ladders than die in mass shootings.
Re:Geographic ‘hot spots’ for cigarette and firearm deaths i... by XorNot on Sunday September 17, 2023 @10:09PM (#37551410)
And if mass shootings were the only deaths that ever occurred from firearms then they'd be much less of a problem...[1,2] (there were >20,000 gun homicides in 2021, versus about 300 deaths from falling off ladders. There have been 351 mass shootings so far in the US [3])

[1] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-...

[2] https://www.lockjawladdergrip.com/blog/ladder-safety-usa-202...

[3] https://abcnews.go.com/US/mass-shootings-days-2023-database-...

Re:Geographic ‘hot spots’ for cigarette and firearm deaths i... by catiopatio on Monday September 18, 2023 @01:35AM (#37552580)
If you dishonestly expand the definition of a word, you can create any statistic you want.

Meanwhile, roughly as many people are killed in automobile accidents as there are gun deaths (of any kind, including suicide) every year.

Statistically, you likely don’t know a single person killed by a gun or a car. I absolutely do not.

Now, heart disease? Statistically you’re unlikely not to know someone who died from it.

In reality, you’re not going to be a random victim of gun violence. Gun homicides primarily consist of internecine violence between criminal elements who primarily use handguns.

Finally, there’s been a large rise in gun homicides over the last few years coinciding with a large rise in violent crime in general. Solve the crime issue, you solve the gun homicides.

Re:Geographic ‘hot spots’ for cigarette and firearm deaths i... by XorNot on Monday September 18, 2023 @03:40AM (#37553398)
Dishonest is your original assertion: that mass shootings must be the only type of gun violence in America.

And then you do it again: "what about automobile accidents?" Well that's a good question! Except (1) a great deal of effort is spent on reducing them, and (2) there are less drunk-driving related crashes then gun homicides in the US[1] - 13,384 in 2021.

And now you're onto just standard whataboutism about everything else. Maybe all causes of death are serious! Maybe one of these causes though has not only a historic lack of attention, but has been the unique recipient of legislation specifically designed to prevent the CDC even looking into it![2]

Because of everything you've listed, you know what's unique? No one is doing anything about gun-related death or injuries. Regulations are actively rolled back, and people like you work to shutdown any possible discussion of the problem. Literally no one is stopping you talking about cars, or heart disease, yet I seriously doubt you'd be bothering to "whatabout" those in any of the numerous studies which get posted.

[1] https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/drunk-driving

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dickey_Amendment

Re:Geographic ‘hot spots’ for cigarette and firearm deaths i... by chipsa on Monday September 18, 2023 @05:17AM (#37553966)
The Dickey Amendment was specifically because a certain set of activists would do "research" for the purpose of creating a record to support gun control.

> “We’re going to systematically build a case that owning firearms causes deaths. We’re doing the most we can do, given the political realities.” (P.W. O’Carroll, Acting Section Head of Division of Injury Control, CDC, quoted in Marsha F. Goldsmith, “Epidemiologists Aim at New Target: Health Risk of Handgun Proliferation,” Journal of the American Medical Association vol. 261 no. 5, February 3, 1989, pp. 675-76.)

The CDC wasn't banned from looking into it. They have looked into how guns may lead to deaths [0][1][2]. The were banned from using it to promote gun control.

Regulations are going to and fro. Some of them are getting rolled back, while others are progressing. Most of the ones that are getting rolled back have been useless at their intent. Or they violate the constitution. Or both!

0: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db241.htm 1: https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/hhe/reports/pdfs/2011-0069-3140.pd... 2: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6230a1.htm

Re:Geographic ‘hot spots’ for cigarette and firearm deaths i... by noduerme on Sunday September 17, 2023 @08:11PM (#37550711)
Alcohol abuse affects people around you, as does abuse of any drug. Drunk driving kills more people than secondhand smoke. And alcohol has a multiplicative effect on violence and other forms of substance abuse as well.

Tobacco, smoked outside, is a minor pollutant no worse to people nearby than the SUVs driving by on the street, and certainly not as bad as what's in most Americans' well water or fast food packaging.

Re:Geographic ‘hot spots’ for cigarette and firearm deaths i... by injb on Sunday September 17, 2023 @08:12PM (#37550718)
I don't have proof of this but I have a hard time believing that passive smoking kills anywhere near as many people as the behaviour of drunk people.
Re:Geographic ‘hot spots’ for cigarette and firearm deaths i... by red-iron-pine on Monday September 18, 2023 @09:43AM (#37556012)
Nah. alcohol correlates heavily, like HEAVILY, for domestic abuse, rape, murder, assault, industrial accidents, and car-related fatalities.

nothin quiet about it. I can walk away from second hand smoke, but I can't just shrug off a drunk driver t-boning me.