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Re:‘Sea is constantly dumping bodies’: fears Libya flood dea... by orwin on Friday September 15, 2023 @08:00AM (#37521688)
For accuracy's sake (i can't find the Atlantic article talking about it, and i'm not bored enough to spend my day going through Wikileaks, so right now the source is trustmebro, i hope that someone have the documents/article in favorite), thanks to Hilary's leaked emails, we know that Obama's administration wasn't keen on going in Libya, and only Sarkozy(France) and Cameron(UK) insistence on attacking decided the US to support the invasion (and it was mostly logistical support).

Again thanks to Hillary's emails, we can suspect that the CIA had a hand in eliminating the new candidate that france wanted to support (we had contact with both Kaddafi's son and the leader of a rebel group, both died), but i wouldn't put that war, then civil war, on US. Also, while France supported eliminating Kaddafi here, they supported the dictator in Tunisia with police forces and weapons (that are marked as non-lethal, but since we haven't found many nonlethal weapons after the revolution, either there was a kickback, or a lot were stolen/lost, or a part of what was sent were lethal weapons).

And for Syria it's the same, Obama's administration wasn't really focused on that part of the middle east, and Hollande (France) forced their hand.

Truly, i cannot believe France's reputation in Africa is that low. I wonder why.

Re:‘Sea is constantly dumping bodies’: fears Libya flood dea... by boppo1 on Friday September 15, 2023 @08:25AM (#37521919)
How did France compel the US about anything?
Re:‘Sea is constantly dumping bodies’: fears Libya flood dea... by continuitylimit on Friday September 15, 2023 @08:43AM (#37522104)
The powers have long divided ‘loot’ — meaning weaker nations that they can exploit — between themselves. Africa is very much French territory. It’s like asking how does a Don from the Council compel the God Father to agree to a hit. “It’s just business”.

Qaddafi got what he deserved from a karmic point of view. He was instrumental in gifting the Islamic Republic to Iran so hope you enjoyed that bayonet Colonel. But obviously his regime was far better for Libya and Africans than the loonies that are cranked up, trained, and armed by Western intelligence agencies as part of their mad approach to managing exploited realms. But again “it’s just business”.

Re:‘Sea is constantly dumping bodies’: fears Libya flood dea... by alephnerd on Friday September 15, 2023 @08:56AM (#37522211)
The US and EU were in the middle of a trade dispute over Airbus subsidizes at the time, which was largely French led.

The WTO ended up finding the EU guilty in 2020.

Re:‘Sea is constantly dumping bodies’: fears Libya flood dea... by orwin on Friday September 15, 2023 @11:14AM (#37524318)
For Libya, mostly by giving fake intel to the UN (and by extension to the US), George W Bush 'WMD' style (though it was a bit more compelling). I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if the UK was aware of it or if the Mi6/SIS was fooled.

For Syria, Obama made threats to try to prevent the use of chemical weapons. The UK wanted to avoid another Libya, the other EU countries aren't warmongers, Turkey wouldn't have said anything, so only France did the 'actually, they used chemical weapons, and the US is not alone if you go so you won't have another Iraq!'.

I don't know what happened to Hollande, why he grew a pair suddenly, but I don't think we ever had a president who didn't stir shit at least once in 70 years.

Re:‘Sea is constantly dumping bodies’: fears Libya flood dea... by alephnerd on Friday September 15, 2023 @08:51AM (#37522165)
> we know that Obama's administration wasn't keen on going in Libya, and only Sarkozy(France) and Cameron(UK) insistence on attacking decided the US to support the invasion (and it was mostly logistical support).

Yep. Can confirm.

This was publicly reported during the 2011-12 period as well. There were a couple press junkets Obama, the State Dept, and DoD did at the time highlighting this stance of non-interventionism. Read some of the older Economist articles from that era as well.

I didn't know Emailgate actually had emails from that time.