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Re:Defold: Open-source Lua game engine with console support by flohofwoe on Wednesday September 13, 2023 @11:12AM (#37497836)
Sheesh, are you on a personal vendetta or something? Give those dudes some slack, they are trying to run a business while at the same time developing the engine in the open.

The important part is that if there's a problem, you can debug it yourself instead of staring at a binary blob.

Re:Defold: Open-source Lua game engine with console support by SXX on Wednesday September 13, 2023 @11:23AM (#37497997)
They are free to run their business and we are free to point out how they distort meaning of "open source". They can easily call it "source available" and no one will bother them.

There is actually open source game engine called Godot that licensed under standard MIT License. We should not let companies like Defold Foundation to mislead anyone to think their software product license is equal in terms of licensing.

Re:Defold: Open-source Lua game engine with console support by prophesi on Wednesday September 13, 2023 @11:48AM (#37498304)
Also should be noted that Godot can't be used for console development, except for the Steam Deck, due to open source licensing issues.

> To develop for consoles, one must be licensed as a company. As an open source project, Godot has no legal structure to provide console ports.

> Console SDKs are secret and covered by non-disclosure agreements. Even if we could get access to them, we could not publish the platform-specific code under an open source license.

https://docs.godotengine.org/en/stable/tutorials/platform/co...

(And for my personal take on the issue, I think Godot is working on these issues and I'm rooting for them. I also get frustrated with the false equivalence of source-available and open-source)

Re:Defold: Open-source Lua game engine with console support by SXX on Wednesday September 13, 2023 @12:00PM (#37498477)
> due to open source licensing issues.

It's have nothing to do with licensing. MIT License that Godot licensed under is perfectly fine for keeping console support closed-source or source-available.

Problem is that Godot didn't have legal entity that can directly work with platform owners. This is why some of Godot maintaiers founded W4 Games and they're actively working on building console suport for all modern consoles:

https://w4games.com/2023/08/06/w4-games-unveils-w4-consoles-...

Of course console support will be commercial and closed source feature, but this is how it works for all game engines and have nothing to do with Godot specifically.

Re:Defold: Open-source Lua game engine with console support by prophesi on Wednesday September 13, 2023 @01:18PM (#37499110)
> It's have nothing to do with licensing.

I disagree there. Licensing is still a huge issue with incorporating a console SDK. Each one plays by their own ball game, and it will take a tremendous amount of effort to work through the legal, business, and licensing issues for each platform. And once that's resolved, you'll still need to provide an avenue for end-users to obtain and hook up the SDK to the open source engine which sounds like quite the engineering effort to simplify it.

Edit: And it looks like Godot is pulling it off quite well, thank you for the link to their blog post

Re:Defold: Open-source Lua game engine with console support by cxr on Wednesday September 13, 2023 @01:25PM (#37499189)
The fact that Godot Foundation doesn't/can't provide certification or support for console integration is not the same thing as "Godot can't be used for console development", let alone "Godot can't be used for console development[...] due to open source licensing issues". It's not (A)GPLv3.

Godot is MIT licensed. Godot _can_ be used for console development—just like any other piece of MIT-licensed code you want to build your game with. It's just that doing so is (read: remains) an undertaking that you have to deal with on your own, since Godot Foundation doesn't offer anything besides the Godot engine source code under compatible license terms. There's nothing particular about Godot or its license here.

From the documentation you yourself linked to:

> Regardless of the engine used to create the game, the process to publish a game to a console platform is as follows: [painful and/or expensive and overall shitty process]

Re:Defold: Open-source Lua game engine with console support by prophesi on Wednesday September 13, 2023 @01:52PM (#37499499)
I think you're getting worked up that I said Godot can't be used for console development, when I really just meant that it can't be used for console development _currently_. I noted that they were working on this in my original comment, and as your blog post shows, it's going well.

For posterity, here's Godot's post a year or so ago on the struggles they've had with console middleware over the years.

https://godotengine.org/article/godot-consoles-all-you-need-...

Re:Defold: Open-source Lua game engine with console support by cxr on Wednesday September 13, 2023 @02:38PM (#37500038)
[delayed]
Re:Defold: Open-source Lua game engine with console support by prophesi on Wednesday September 13, 2023 @03:13PM (#37500479)
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. There are a lot more hoops you have to jump through if you're keeping your engine actually open source.
Re:Defold: Open-source Lua game engine with console support by hoistbypetard on Wednesday September 13, 2023 @01:14PM (#37499075)
They literally call it "source available". From their FAQ[1]:

> Q: Why don't you use the term Open Source when talking about the source code?

> A: The definition of the term Open Source is heavily debated. The Open Source Initiative has created a definition of the term Open Source where it must be possible to commercialise the source code. The Defold Foundation has made the decision to prevent commercialisation of the game engine and editor (the Game Engine Product). We want Defold to always be free to use! (You can of course still sell your games and plugins and you can modify the engine as much as you like).

[1](https://defold.com/open/)

Their foundation charter is interesting, too: https://defold.com/foundation/

Re:Defold: Open-source Lua game engine with console support by gorjusborg on Wednesday September 13, 2023 @11:18AM (#37497922)
Personal vendetta? That's not what I'm reading from his comment. I appreciate that he's sharing details about the behavior of the developers around a piece of software that by its very nature is the foundation of its user's products.

Given the issues w/ Unity, I think this information is pertinent and welcome.