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Re:Physicists Observe ‘Unobservable’ Quantum Phase Transition by bowsamic on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @08:11AM (#37479858)
> The Everett interpretation is just taking the Schrödinger equations and not adding anything else to it.

That's literally what people claim Copenhagen to be

Everett's interpretation requires positing a universal wavefunction and some kind of branching mechanism

It's not some basic, straightforward interpretation of QM without any additional postulates, and even if it was, that would not be evidence for it to be true over others

Re:Physicists Observe ‘Unobservable’ Quantum Phase Transition by ithkuil on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @09:02AM (#37480507)
no, copenhagen interpretation is wave function + born rule.

the "branching mechanism" is not part of the fundamental mechanism of the everett interpretation. The "branching" is an emergent phenomenon similar to what happens when you mix to liquids of two different colors. At "some point" the the fluids intermix in such a way that you no longer distinguish them and finding the right boundary when that exactly happen may seem a bit "fuzzy", but the physics of what's going on is perfectly clear to anybody; the two substances are still there, but just mixed up in way that is completely intractable to reverse in practice.

Re:Physicists Observe ‘Unobservable’ Quantum Phase Transition by bowsamic on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @09:08AM (#37480589)
It still posits that we are in one of (probably) infinite universes corresponding to each possible outcome (unless you are getting confused with the "Consistent histories" interpretation). That is a part of the fundamental mechanism of the Everett interpretation, it's literally why it's called the Many World Interpretation. Just because you can make a physical analogy for that branching doesn't mean it isn't an extra element in your ontology
Re:Physicists Observe ‘Unobservable’ Quantum Phase Transition by ithkuil on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @09:50AM (#37481249)
yeah, I'd argue though that it's not adding those universes. They're there all along. Branching is an epiphenomenon of there being information processing machines that are embedded in the real universe, and those machines interpret their interactions with the surrounding as if they were only part of a subset of that universe, and upon reasoning about that they call the real universe the "multi-verse"
Re:Physicists Observe ‘Unobservable’ Quantum Phase Transition by bowsamic on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @09:55AM (#37481328)
Okay but once again that is an extra postulate that is not really much less crazy than postulating the Born rule
Re:Physicists Observe ‘Unobservable’ Quantum Phase Transition by ithkuil on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @12:04PM (#37483345)
well, whether the postulate is crazy or not is a matter of perspective.

Postulating that nature just does the Born rule is postulating an additional thing that nature does.

Postulating that hey perhaps we ain't that special and perhaps we should just think through the consequences of our own brains being embedded in the very nature we're trying to describe.

On one hand, it feels like we're adding a lot by buying into the Everrettian model, because it does require us to think and throw away some intuition about ourselves. But OTOH, it actually requires adding much much less to what nature actually does.

Re:Physicists Observe ‘Unobservable’ Quantum Phase Transition by kgwgk on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @12:18PM (#37483575)
We have to assume that nature “does” those consequences of our own brains being embedded in the very nature we're trying to describe though. Even if we can’t even articulate precisely what they are the assumption is not so mild.
Re:Physicists Observe ‘Unobservable’ Quantum Phase Transition by bowsamic on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @12:27PM (#37483714)
The point is that it's not inconsistent if it always produces results consistent with experiments
Re:Physicists Observe ‘Unobservable’ Quantum Phase Transition by ithkuil on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @09:05AM (#37480551)
> [..] and even if it was, that would not be evidence for it to be true over others

sure, it's not possible to distinguish it from some of the others.

This thread started with comparing it to some theories that instead invoked non-local effects, which would violate general relativity, so there's that.

Re:Physicists Observe ‘Unobservable’ Quantum Phase Transition by bowsamic on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @09:08AM (#37480600)
It's pointless to speak about violating general relativity because we don't have a quantum theory of gravity yet
Re:Physicists Observe ‘Unobservable’ Quantum Phase Transition by ithkuil on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @09:47AM (#37481203)
I don't agree with your absolutism here. Not knowing things doesn't mean everything is on equal footing.

All I'm saying in this thread is that, when comparing possible theories, the ones that do not violate general relativity while explaining other observations IMO deserve not to be dismissed just because people cannot wrap their heads around non-physical consequences of the theory.

Re:Physicists Observe ‘Unobservable’ Quantum Phase Transition by bowsamic on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @09:54AM (#37481316)
Okay but also if they do violate GR that doesn't really tell us much either, since we expect QM to not obey the rules of GR