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Re:In Germany, 27 are in 'preventive detention' b/c they mig... by bsimpson on Monday September 11, 2023 @02:22PM (#37471382)
We have a constitutional right to a speedy trial.

That right can be waived to give the defense time to prepare, and it isn't always enforced for non-citizens detained abroad (e.g. Guantanamo), but I'm unaware of anything similar to the article happening in the US.

Re:In Germany, 27 are in 'preventive detention' b/c they mig... by BurningFrog on Monday September 11, 2023 @02:40PM (#37471702)
In theory we have that right.

In practice, 98% of criminal cases in the federal courts end with a plea bargain.

https://www.npr.org/2023/02/22/1158356619/plea-bargains-crim...

Re:In Germany, 27 are in 'preventive detention' b/c they mig... by ceejayoz on Monday September 11, 2023 @02:42PM (#37471743)
We have the right to a speedy trial and a the right to accept a plea bargain. You can decline a plea bargain and demand a speedy trial; the limits are defined by law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedy_Trial_Act

(As with other rights, these rights sometimes require active defense by civil rights organizations, nor are they completely absolute.)

Re:In Germany, 27 are in 'preventive detention' b/c they mig... by BurningFrog on Monday September 11, 2023 @02:58PM (#37472028)
Few people choose this because of the "trail penalty".

If you're found guilty in a trial, you get a 2-4 times longer sentence than the plea deal would have given.

So the theoretical right to a trial remains, but exercising that right is heavily penalized. To me that means the right is for practical purposes no longer exists.

Re:In Germany, 27 are in 'preventive detention' b/c they mig... by ceejayoz on Monday September 11, 2023 @03:07PM (#37472153)
Sure, that's why it's a deal. You say penalty, they say bargain. Both are true. For folks who've genuinely committed big-boy crimes, a plea bargain is great; for falsely accused innocents it presents an unpleasant dilemma at times.

My being able to opt to voluntarily testify doesn't mean the right to remain silent doesn't exist. We'd have no rights by your definition.

Re:In Germany, 27 are in 'preventive detention' b/c they mig... by BurningFrog on Monday September 11, 2023 @03:35PM (#37472577)
You can think of it that way if you want, sure.

Another angle is that plead bargains are necessary to put as many people in jail as we do.

The judicial system would completely break down if it needed to have 50x as many trials.

Re:In Germany, 27 are in 'preventive detention' b/c they mig... by ceejayoz on Monday September 11, 2023 @03:47PM (#37472656)
> The judicial system would completely break down if it needed to have 50x as many trials.

Yes. I'd argue that's not universally or even mostly a good thing.

Re:In Germany, 27 are in 'preventive detention' b/c they mig... by joshuamorton on Monday September 11, 2023 @02:45PM (#37471786)
Note this only applies to federal trials, not state trials (where the vast majority of crimes are prosecuted).
Re:In Germany, 27 are in 'preventive detention' b/c they mig... by ceejayoz on Monday September 11, 2023 @02:48PM (#37471842)
It's often defined at the state level, too. Here in NY, prosecutors are required to be ready to go within six months (felony) or 90 days (misdemeanor): https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/CPL/30.30

The right exists whether or not your state has legislation defining a timeframe, too.

Re:In Germany, 27 are in 'preventive detention' b/c they mig... by joshuamorton on Monday September 11, 2023 @05:11PM (#37473765)
Yeah, absolutely the constitutional right exists, but it's often less well defined than the federal version, which is very clear and well followed.
Re:In Germany, 27 are in 'preventive detention' b/c they mig... by l33t7332273 on Monday September 11, 2023 @03:02PM (#37472082)
I’m not following what that has to do with a speedy trial.
Re:In Germany, 27 are in 'preventive detention' b/c they mig... by thephyber on Monday September 11, 2023 @03:04PM (#37472116)
We still have that right.

The nuance is the US court system allows additional punishment if a defendant chooses to go to trial. Also, plea bargaining usually involves lots of prosecutor bluffing before they have to show discovery which is the same time they can “throw the book at the defendant” (overload the charges beyond what they can actually prove to a jury).

It’s also worth mentioning that the speedy trial can sometimes come with strings attached (as Georgia’s statute which has been recently discussed ad nauseum in the cases of 2 of the 19 2020-electoral-college-RICO defendants)

Re:In Germany, 27 are in 'preventive detention' b/c they mig... by nvahalik on Monday September 11, 2023 @02:29PM (#37471480)
See: January 6th. There are still many people in jail who haven't been to trial.
Re:In Germany, 27 are in 'preventive detention' b/c they mig... by sethrin on Monday September 11, 2023 @02:42PM (#37471742)
Those aren't "political prisoners", they're merely normal criminals, but there's so many of them that the justice system is having a hard time dealing with it. There are only so many federal judges and prosecutors.
Re:In Germany, 27 are in 'preventive detention' b/c they mig... by jeffbee on Monday September 11, 2023 @02:33PM (#37471557)
A person who is in jail awaiting trial for attempting to overthrow the government of the United States is not a "political prisoner".
Re:In Germany, 27 are in 'preventive detention' b/c they mig... by ipaddr on Monday September 11, 2023 @02:54PM (#37471950)
In many cases they would be if they subscribed to a political ideology and committed acts because of them.

In this case overthrowing is actual a protest that went out of control because of lax security. A real overthrow attempt would need to involve heavy weapons. Protesters didn't even have butter knives.

Re:In Germany, 27 are in 'preventive detention' b/c they mig... by l33t7332273 on Monday September 11, 2023 @03:22PM (#37472380)
> In this case overthrowing is actual a protest

Only for some of the people involved. However, there were certainly people there attempting an actual overthrow[1]

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jan/14/oath-keepers...

Re:In Germany, 27 are in 'preventive detention' b/c they mig... by thephyber on Monday September 11, 2023 @02:36PM (#37471625)
They are not political prisoners. They committed federal crimes while live-streaming it and the government has presented the evidence. It just so happens that the amount of evidence they generated while committing crimes overloaded the DOJ’s capacity to collect and organize it (both prerequisites for discovery by the defendants before they can build their defense).

There have been a few defendants who have successfully challenged the speed of the trial and courts have let them off. It’s far more likely that the DOJ attorneys are simply overwhelmed with the prosecution than they are purposefully persecuting the arrested.

> According to the George Washington Program on Extremism, the FBI has arrested 940 people in connection to January 6. Of those, 43 were convicted, 481 pleaded guilty, and 382 are still waiting for trial. Most of the people waiting are out on bail. [1]

It so happens that the defendants all committed crimes on the same day, causing a backlog. It also happens that DC is a strange jurisdiction that requires coordination between federal officers of different departments (Capitol Police, Parks Police, Secret Service, etc) in a town that must get all funding passed through Congress, which is functionally broken most of the year.

[1] https://newrepublic.com/article/170991/cpac-january-6-riot-p...

Re:In Germany, 27 are in 'preventive detention' b/c they mig... by joshuamorton on Monday September 11, 2023 @02:29PM (#37471482)
https://www.thecity.nyc/2022/8/17/23310771/why-some-spend-ye...

Pretrial detention can often happen for years, it's one of the issues that makes guilty pleas so insidious. Even if you are innocent, wanting to get your day in court can require you to spend months in jail, so a guilty plea can actually be the more economical outcome.

Re:In Germany, 27 are in 'preventive detention' b/c they mig... by bsimpson on Monday September 11, 2023 @02:43PM (#37471755)
I appreciate the context link.

It's worth noting that one of the examples was someone changing his lawyer repeatedly. I don't believe the right to a speedy trial is violated if you're the one that causes your own delay.