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A comment on Profound Beliefs. Parent comment

Re:Profound Beliefs by jimbob45 on Sunday September 10, 2023 @01:46PM (#37458171)
Steve for Objective C or just his design principles in general?
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Re:Profound Beliefs by lisper on Sunday September 10, 2023 @01:52PM (#37458226)
Steve (Jobs, not Blank) was an unparalleled visionary. I give him credit for the Apple II [1], the Mac, Objective C, NeXTOS/OSX/MacOS, and the whole i-series from his second stint at Apple (iMac, iPod, iPhone, iPad). To call him an overachiever would be quite the understatement. He is truly in a class by himself. I can't offhand think of anyone else in his league. (Elon Muck comes closest, but I'd rate him a very distant second.)

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[1] Yes, I know Woz actually designed and built it, but Burrell Smith designed the original Mac, and neither of those things would have been possible without Jobs.

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Re:Profound Beliefs by growingkittens on Sunday September 10, 2023 @02:14PM (#37458437)
Steve Jobs was a visionary authoritarian with the resources, opportunities, and connections to make Apple happen.

Visionary authoritarians are dangerous to glorify.

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Re:Profound Beliefs by lisper on Sunday September 10, 2023 @02:52PM (#37458803)
I didn't intend to glorify him, only to defend my claim that he was an extreme outlier.
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Re:Profound Beliefs by growingkittens on Sunday September 10, 2023 @05:51PM (#37460445)
Glorification doesn't have to be intentional. Steve Jobs left a trail of havoc in the lives of the people he used to build Apple. He did objectively bad things to achieve objectively good things, so to speak. The good result is tightly coupled to a bad technique. Omitting the bad technique is tantamount to glorification.

The language in your posts is also very...enthusiastic?

Speaking of hard workers, have you read about Niklas Luhmann?

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Re:Profound Beliefs by lisper on Sunday September 10, 2023 @08:17PM (#37461404)
> Omitting the bad technique is tantamount to glorification.

The reason I left it out is not because I want to "glorify" him but rather that I have no specific knowledge of his "bad technique". All I know is that he had a reputation for being an asshole. I have no reason to doubt that this reputation was well deserved, but I don't have any specific knowledge one way or the other.

> The language in your posts is also very...enthusiastic?

I have no idea what that means. What does "un-enthusaistic" language look like?

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Re:Profound Beliefs by Salgat on Monday September 11, 2023 @01:08AM (#37463118)
They mean that you seem very eager to praise jobs.
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Re:Profound Beliefs by alexashka on Sunday September 10, 2023 @09:01PM (#37461645)
What resources? Knowing Steve Wozniak and a garage?

As for dangerous to glorify - existing is dangerous - what of it?

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Re:Profound Beliefs by wlesieutre on Sunday September 10, 2023 @02:09PM (#37458408)
> the whole i-series from his second stint at Apple (iMac, iPod, iPhone, iPad)

Don’t forget the iBook and iSight!

And a whole pile of software and services like iTools (with its iDisk and iCards), iWork, and most of the iLife suite (Garage Band somehow escaped being named iBand).

i all the things!

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