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Re:California's plastic bag ban is failing by Ekaros on Thursday September 07, 2023 @11:57AM (#37420902)
So Organic cotton is horrible for environment on these metrics? And it is not even small margin compared to regular one...
Re:California's plastic bag ban is failing by chewbacha on Thursday September 07, 2023 @12:00PM (#37420962)
FWIW - My family has generally used the same cotton canvas bags for decades and they are useful for more than just groceries.
Re:California's plastic bag ban is failing by smileysteve on Thursday September 07, 2023 @12:09PM (#37421114)
I use a cotton/nylon blend backpack from grade school 25 years ago. Useful for all sorts of things from groceries to beach/mountain day pack.
Re:California's plastic bag ban is failing by hathchip on Thursday September 07, 2023 @12:14PM (#37421207)
I really don't think those graphs make that case, although it seems they are trying to.

Organic cotton is ahead of plastic for greenhouse gases after 149 uses. That's a small number of uses for a cotton tote bag, which should last several years of daily wear. That means that from the 150th use you are reducing greenhouse gases every time you take the bag out, while potentially still net polluting in a couple of other ways.

But greenhouse gas emissions are by far the most critical and potentially catastrophic environment issue. If we can effectively and reliably lower greenhouse gases while causing a few extra rhino deaths or depleting the ozone layer marginally, we should enthusiastically seize that opportunity.

Given this, the "average over all pollution types" seems particularly useless and intentionally misleading here. That number literally cannot be coerced into meaning anything that should affect your decision making process.

Re:California's plastic bag ban is failing by causi on Thursday September 07, 2023 @12:24PM (#37421393)
That's a small number of uses for a cotton tote bag, which should last several years of daily wear.

Who uses it every day? My trips to get groceries are every week or two weeks. I'd have a decent chance of misplacing the thing before I offset its carbon. If I forgot it just once and had to turn the car around to get it I'd probably double its footprint.

Re:California's plastic bag ban is failing by hathchip on Thursday September 07, 2023 @12:38PM (#37421628)
I mean, if you use it less, it will wear down slower. Nothing to worry about.
Re:California's plastic bag ban is failing by InSteady on Thursday September 07, 2023 @01:01PM (#37422017)
>Who uses it every day?

There are 52 weeks in a year. After several years of weekly use you have offset the carbon.

> I'd have a decent chance of misplacing the thing before I offset its carbon.

You can keep things simply and only use it for groceries if you have trouble keeping track of things. Keep it in the same location every time, ideally by the door, always return it to it's spot immediately after unloading groceries when you get home. Don't leave a full bag of groceries at the store. You're pretty much set.

You could also go for a recycled PET reusable bag if you just can't trust yourself to hang on to a cotton bag for a few years. Still better than single-use plastics by many metrics as long as you aren't losing bags multiple times per year. And yeah, don't turn around to get your bag when you're halfway to the store; get single-use plastic on that occasion and spend a few moments gently reaffirming your habit/routine that includes grabbing the bag when you head out for groceries.

Re:California's plastic bag ban is failing by ImJamal on Thursday September 07, 2023 @12:45PM (#37421767)
>Organic cotton is ahead of plastic for greenhouse gases after 149 uses. That's a small number of uses for a cotton tote bag, which should last several years of daily wear.

Is it a small number? I put my bags in my shopping cart so I always wash them after each use since the carts are unsanitary. Once you start washing them after each use, the bags fall apart rather quickly. It might not be less than 149 uses, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was.

Re:California's plastic bag ban is failing by hathchip on Thursday September 07, 2023 @12:59PM (#37421968)
Do you wash your clothes after wearing them? Maybe you should start wearing single-use plastic clothes since it's obviously much better for the environment.
Re:California's plastic bag ban is failing by ImJamal on Friday September 08, 2023 @10:34AM (#37434015)
I wash my clothes after each use. Clothing, unlike the cheap grocery bags, are usually better quality and last longer than bags. Perhaps I just have cheap bags, but they don't seem to last all that long.
Re:California's plastic bag ban is failing by nomel on Thursday September 07, 2023 @12:06PM (#37421052)
Unless you’re going to eat it, what’s the point of organic cotton? Cotton seems like something that should be optimized, for production, as much as possible.
Re:California's plastic bag ban is failing by cultofmetatron on Thursday September 07, 2023 @12:10PM (#37421136)
the ecological damage from all the pesticides used in traditional cotton production would be why.
Re:California's plastic bag ban is failing by tekla on Thursday September 07, 2023 @12:12PM (#37421169)
Organic pesticides are similarly terrible for the environment.
Re:California's plastic bag ban is failing by cultofmetatron on Thursday September 07, 2023 @12:29PM (#37421474)
I'll agree with you that some organic pesticides can be just as bad. however there are much stricter guidelines on when and how they are applied to qualify for organic certification. In the case of conventional, the application methodology is more about the bottom line. which in many cases means spraying way more to maximize yield.