Plenty of people have been socialized to expect certain material things as part of the marriage process. Does it make sense? Probably not. Is it a character flaw? Absolutely not.

How is it not a character flaw ?

Because all of us want stupid shit?

Unless you’re willing to bundle everything beyond pure Buddha-tier equanimity as “character flaws.”

it’s unfair to draw the line between “useless thing you were socialized to spend money on” and “useless thing someone else was socialized to spend money on.”

Eh… stupidly expensive, unethically sourced, low store of value, easily substituted by superior cheaper alternatives feels like the height of “bad” materialism if there is such a thing.

Considering how many marriages end due to finances and how often couples fight over money, "wastes money" is probably one of the least desirable traits in a future spouse.

"Failure to see reason" is probably the next biggest red-flag/dealbreaker for me.

I'm going to die alone.

Fortunately it's the future. Just (gently) advertise on your Tinder (well, more likely Hinge) profile that you've watched that movie about blood diamonds and will be buying your and your future wife a lavish foreign honeymoon instead of a blood diamond to pre-screen potential dates if it's a deal breaker to you.

Yeah well that’s society for ya. If you go with lab grown make sure you only go for a size that’s actually achievable in natural-diamond prices for your income level. The signaling game (silly as it is) is good at outing “that’s an excessively large diamond for his/her income, must be lab-grown” versus “that’s a large diamond for his/her income, that’s an indicator of priority.”

The flaw isn't 'wanting the diamond', the flaw is 'being aware of the horrific nature of the industry and still wanting the diamond'.

A significant volume of the world's clothes are produced through sweatshop and child labor.

Then there's consumer electronics manufacturing... ...or being a tourist to the Saudi Arabia/Turkey/Russia/UAE where modern-day slavery is taking place at scale.

Out of sight, out of mind.

I’m sure the coffee you drink and the tshirts you wear and the phone you use are all ethically sourced eh?

We’re all deluding ourselves for the sake of sanity + having nice stuff.

Are you telling me I can get lab-grown coffee and t-shirts that avoid the nastiest parts of the traditional processes? As for phones, I'm on a used iphone 6. That doesn't make its original sourcing any better, but harm reduction is still reduction

The utility of a diamond ring is not to have shiny rock. It’s meant to be an expensive useless thing to demonstrate that you/your partner can spend money on expensive useless things.

So a shiny thing that’s less expensive actually doesn’t satisfy the same role.

A shiny thing that’s just as expensive but less valuable (ie lower $/karat, ie lab grown) is so large as to out itself as not-the-truly-ridiculous waste of money that a real diamond is supposed to be for its signaling value.

Yes! Fairtrade coffee and pre-owned clothing is the least we can do in the face of capitalism's worst excesses. It won't end horrors of humanity that have existed since before capitalism but it's something. Hoping a usable Fairphone comes to the US, but getting a refurb iphone is still better than getting a new one.

You can't fix the whole world with personal choices, like an eyedropper against the ocean, but you can still opt out of the worst excesses without having to compromise every modern convenience.

If you ask her if she'd prefer a lab diamond or one from the ground, and she says ground, you have your answer. If you force the issue and insist on getting the lab diamond, you're the douche.

Why ask? Personally I just nerded out over the specs a bit, filtered for colourless and unflawed as far as the naked eye can see (i.e. you can get better but requires a specialist with specialist equipment to tell, so who cares, she's wearing it not collecting or selling it) and then went with the largest I didn't think would look silly (or alternatively that's within budget, whichever limit's tighter).

I don't really think there's an unbiased way to ask. 'Lab-grown or natural' makes the latter sound more 'real' and better. 'Ethical or blood sweat and tears' is obviously out. 'Lab-grown and technically superior for the same money, or natural and more flawed' is about the best I can come up with, but the former is just objectively the correct answer isn't it? I don't see how anyone could understand the question and answer the latter. There just isn't a reason to prefer natural, all else being equal, for an item of personal jewellery that you're going to wear?

Why ask? Because when I’m giving a gift to my wife, the main thing I’m trying to optimize for is her happiness. And the criteria that I consider most important may not be the most important to her.