Re:Portal 64 – A demake of Portal for the Nintendo 64
by lmm on Monday September 04, 2023 @06:27PM
(#37385728)
> Like your example of a new smartphone or new steamdeck replacing the old Xbox Original: it is almost certain that the electrical consumption gains would not compensate, in terms of total energy and resources spent and pollution made, the discarting of the original xbox
Citation needed. We're talking about a huge difference in electrical efficiency.
Re:Portal 64 – A demake of Portal for the Nintendo 64
by dandelany on Monday September 04, 2023 @11:15PM
(#37387439)
The “embodied energy” of a new tablet like a Steam Deck is estimated at roughly 1 GJ, which is ~275 kWh. Original Xbox draws around 100W, so you’d need to play for more than 2000 hours to get anywhere close to the energy cost of creating a new device.
https://energyeducation.ca/encyclopedia/Embodied_energy#:~:t....
Re:Portal 64 – A demake of Portal for the Nintendo 64
by ehnto on Tuesday September 05, 2023 @02:58AM
(#37388712)
2000 hours is very possible, I have 1000+ hours in single games, let alone on a single device with many games.
Re:Portal 64 – A demake of Portal for the Nintendo 64
by vel0city on Tuesday September 05, 2023 @08:19AM
(#37390677)
That's 500 4-hour days of gaming. I imagine a large number of gamers would easily do more than that over a few years of console ownership, so I imagine a large percentage of devices did use more power than the embodied energy.
Re:Portal 64 – A demake of Portal for the Nintendo 64
by frozenlettuce on Monday September 04, 2023 @07:36PM
(#37386220)
People ignore the energy and scarcity of the materials involved in creating the hardware. It's like recharging a car battery with power from a coal plant.
Re:Portal 64 – A demake of Portal for the Nintendo 64
by supertrope on Monday September 04, 2023 @10:33PM
(#37387226)
Charging a car with 100% coal fired electricity is about as dirty/clean as driving a hybrid. https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths#Myt... https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=bt2
The most coal intensive region of the US is 67% coal.
Re:Portal 64 – A demake of Portal for the Nintendo 64
by uoaei on Monday September 04, 2023 @11:13PM
(#37387424)
Instantaneously that may be true, but what about factoring in the environmental costs of manufacturing, including mining the raw materials and transporting the completed product (mass) to its final location?
Re:Portal 64 – A demake of Portal for the Nintendo 64
by supertrope on Tuesday September 05, 2023 @06:18PM
(#37398556)
Re:Portal 64 – A demake of Portal for the Nintendo 64
by sunshinesnacks on Tuesday September 05, 2023 @07:36PM
(#37399312)
Worst case, the EV is only slightly better. Typical to best case, the EV is 2-4X better.
https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/comparative-l...
Re:Portal 64 – A demake of Portal for the Nintendo 64
by uoaei on Wednesday September 06, 2023 @10:49AM
(#37405992)
You're now talking about the entire life cycle. I'd be interested to see how many EV drivers today are expected to keep their vehicles for that long before moving on to flashier, longer-range, etc. vehicles before they reach EoL.
Re:Portal 64 – A demake of Portal for the Nintendo 64
by sunshinesnacks on Saturday September 09, 2023 @08:46AM
(#37444717)
Why wouldn’t the entire life cycle be the most important thing? As long as the used car market doesn’t become so saturated that good cars are getting scrapped, or everyone starts buying multiple cars just for fun, I don’t see how the duration of initial ownership matters. If anything, I thing a lot of people depend on the used car market. If everyone likes their EV so much that they never sell it and drive it until it dies, the used market will dry up and some people may not be able to afford cars.
As an anecdote, my car (ICE) was owned by someone else for about 6 months before I bought it used. I’ve been driving it for the last 16 years.
You are being reductionist, and only accounting for the factor of direct eletrical consumption during use, and not the total energy and natural resources spent during the equipments lifetime , specially its manufacturing (which i think is the real measure of ecological efficiency we should aim).
The old hardware was already produced, resources were spent and pollution and emissions were made, so it is a duty that we should use it as much as possible until irrepairable breakdown happens, and reduce our consumption of new stuff that would only replace it. Like your example of a new smartphone or new steamdeck replacing the old Xbox Original: it is almost certain that the electrical consumption gains would not compensate, in terms of total energy and resources spent and pollution made, the discarting of the original xbox (in fact, it would generate more waste that would need to be reprocessed, generating even more pollution).
Remember the 3Rs ? The 1st R is REDUCE, not ''replace stuff every 3-5 years to get slightly less eletric consumption''. It is kind of the point of the Permacomputing movement the OP mentioned: perma comes from perma-nent, make computers that last much longer lifespans than the current system. If people could repurpose old PS3s and Xbox for playing indies, and bigger games we demaked to it, people could keep using the stuff and buy less.
A Few texts for inspiration: https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2020/12/how-and-why-i-stop... https://www.iltascabile.com/scienze/sostenibilita-digitale/