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Re:Teaching with AI by bloppe on Thursday August 31, 2023 @06:44PM (#37344578)
Sure, calculators made people worse at mental arithmetic, but arithmetic is mechanical. It's helpful sometimes, but it's not intellectually stimulating and it doesn't require much intelligence. Mathematicians don't give a shit about arithmetic. They're busy thinking about much more important things.

Synthesizing an original thesis, like what people are supposed to do in writing essays, is totally different. It's a fundamental life skill people will need in all sorts of contexts, and using an LLM to do it for you takes away your intellectual agency in a way that using a calculator doesn't.

Re:Teaching with AI by zaat on Thursday August 31, 2023 @07:50PM (#37345043)
> Mathematicians don't give a shit about arithmetic

Sure, once you know how to multiply you don't care about it. But try learning first year CS math without being able to multiply without perfect command of the multiplication table

Re:Teaching with AI by allturtles on Thursday August 31, 2023 @08:05PM (#37345155)
Exactly. My wife tutors kids at the high school who never mastered arithmetic and are trying to learn algebra. It's hopeless.
Re:Teaching with AI by pulvinar on Thursday August 31, 2023 @10:12PM (#37345988)
That was true before calculators too. Correlation, causation.
Re:Teaching with AI by allturtles on Friday September 01, 2023 @09:28AM (#37350547)
I'm not sure what you mean. These kids can't do arithmetic without a calculator. While it was possible to simply not learn arithmetic before calculators, it wasn't possible to hobble onward using the calculator as a crutch.
Re:Teaching with AI by pulvinar on Friday September 01, 2023 @02:09PM (#37354317)
If those kids were truly applying themselves to the algebra, I think they'd quickly internalize arithmetic too as they used it. But whatever reason led those kids to not do arithmetic without a calculator could well be a reason they don't do well at more advanced math.
Re:Teaching with AI by allturtles on Friday September 01, 2023 @11:15PM (#37358297)
My point is failing to learn the basics is a huge hurdle to learning more advanced things. You posit that one could learn the basics and the advanced math at the same time. Maybe, but that would clearly be harder than doing them in order.

Fluency in arithmetic isn't something drilled into kids just to be obnoxious, it's foundational to almost all future math skills.

Re:Teaching with AI by nicklaf on Friday September 01, 2023 @12:01AM (#37346659)
> They're busy thinking about much more important things.

Generally I agree (because the content of modern mathematics is largely abstract), but to nitpick a bit, number theory is part of mathematics too!

Ramanujan and Euler, for example, certainly cared a lot about 'arithmetic', and historically, many parts of mathematics have been just as 'empirical' in terms of calculating things as it is based on abstract proofs.

Re:Teaching with AI by argiopetech on Friday September 01, 2023 @09:49AM (#37350812)
Engineers care about arithmetic. Carpenters do too. Any number of other creative endeavors require (or, at least, are dramatically improved) by the ability to make basic calculations (even if approximate) quickly in your head.

Arithmetic is the "write one sentence" of composition. The ability to think through a series of calculations with real-world context and consequences is the 5-paragraph essay. If you're not competent with the basics, you won't be able to accomplish the more advanced skill. Being tied to a calculator (not merely using, but being unable to not use) takes away intellectual agency in the same way as an LLM-generated essay (though, I'll agree, to a lesser degree).