Migrants in Sweden are far over-represented in crime. Especially violent crime.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/338563093_Migrants_...

All of the bombings are gang related, and gang members in Sweden have a disproportionately foreign background.

There is nothing to gain here by pretending this isn't happening. People are literally dying. No one mentioned any races, and conflating "immigrant" with any particular race is misleading at best.

Not disputing the nbers, why would I? But painting it as problem purely caused by migration, and I highly doubt we talk about people from Germany, Denmark or Norway, has some xenophobic undertones, doesn't it?

The gang crime is, almost entirely, driven by 1st or 2nd generation migrants.

https://www.gulf-insider.com/almost-all-gang-members-in-swed...

There is no use in splitting hairs on this one. The issue is clear.

Your sources aren't worth reading because I don't like the conclusions they support. /s

Given the very loose definition of racism and xenophobia these days, you may be right, but in the same sense that you can call a woman sexist for not wanting to be followed by a man when walking alone at night. Calling her a sexist repeatedly does not make her behavior unfounded or unreasonable.

Not sure how it's racist. It's exclusively done by immigrants in Sweden? Surely that's a factor that is relevant to the discussion?

As far as I understand, it's a relatively global operation. Swedish gangs essentially franchise the business model from the Mexican cartels.

Swedish immigrants are susceptible to this because Sweden did a spectacularly poor job at integrating these people. The idea was to liberally accept immigrants to solve the demographic crisis and the pension system, but along the way most of the immigrants who moved to the country were let down and given fairly shitty life prospects. Crappy jobs, small apartments, segregated communities in crumbling '70s apartment buildings.

These are not American-style (overseas) immigrants, with relative wealth and degrees. These are poor refugees who might never have wanted to live in the West anyway. Integrating them in an advanced European monoculture sounds like an impossible social engineering task, no?

Yeah, I think the project was pretty naive.

I think there has been a somewhat conceited attitude among the Swedish political class to assume that Swedish values and ideals are an inevitable logical conclusion from enlightenment, and if someone doesn't share these values, it's because the poor souls haven't been informed of the correct way to think yet, and when encountering superior Swedish values, they willingly abandon their unenlightened opinions and assume the enlightened values of Sweden in their place.

Well as it turns out these values are a logical conclusion only if you've been indoctrinated in them since you were a toddler.

Surely "monoculture" is an exaggeration.

The Swedish population includes a large number of Finns, and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Sweden says even 50 years ago 10% of the population was born to foreign born mothers.

If Sweden isn't a monoculture then your argument suggests integration should be possible, yes?

That doesn't mean it would be easy to integrate refugees. Just look at how hard it was for Miami to integrate Cuban refugees. Anti-Castro extremists, for example, set off car bombs in the 1970s and 1980s. http://cuban-exile.com/doc_051-075/doc0073.html

Knowing this, yes, other European countries should have done more, to helped share the effort needed.

To make sure I understand the topic, I researched more about Sweden's multicultural history.

https://www.informationsverige.se/en/om-sverige/individens-r... says "There are five recognised historical national minorities in Sweden: Jews, Roma people, Sami people, Sweden Finns, and Tornedalians" and historically they were deliberately oppressed by monocultural policies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tornedalians gives one example:

> Tornedalians were the targets of extensive so-called "racial biology" and swedification policies. In the early-to-mid 1900s Herman Lundborg and others from the State Institute for Racial Biology performed skull measurements on Tornedalians, with Lundborg performing the first measurements in 1913. At the same time speaking Finnish in schools was banned in parts of the country, including the Torne Valley. This ban was only revoked by the Riksdag in 1957.

How does that fit into your concept of "monoculture" in Sweden?

I think that's missing the point. Sweden has been an overbearing consensus culture with relatively limited room for debate or differences in opinions or values beyond the superficial.

Minorities like the Roma have been permitted to exist, but they've had zero place in the public sphere.

I don't know how to interpret that.

Yes, historically Sweden has been overbearing consensus culture, including using so-called "race science" to justify their positions, as with the Tornedalians.

But didn't official policy change long before they accepted many poor refugees from the non-West, which is the criteria shrimp_emoji used at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37336674 ?

That change, as I understand it, included creating the autonomous Sámi parliament back in the 1990s, and recognizing the Tornedalians and Sweden Finns, yes?

Plus, by the time of the Middle Eastern refugees, Sweden had accepted Western refugees, like Chileans back in the 1970s and Balkan refugees of the 1990s?

How then is Sweden a still meaningfully a monoculture even by, say, 2005?

I mean, I can understand how a government can be a monoculture, even if the country is not (eg, Afrikaans and South Africa), but I took shrimp_emoji to refer to the overall population, not the government.

Jews have had full civil rights in Sweden since before 1910, and took in a large amount of refugees from the Holocaust (famously, the entire Jewish population of Denmark). Sounds like the did a good job there.

Sweden has a chequered history when it comes to it relation to Jews. Before and during the first years of the second world war Sweden was mostly "neutral on the side of Nazi-Germany", it was only when the tides of war began to turn that Sweden became "neutral on the side of the allies". The stamped "J" (for "Jüde" or "Jew") in German passports for Jewish citizens was put there on the suggestion of Swiss and Swedish authorities which otherwise would have demanded visa for all Germans [1]. If you want to learn more about this history there is a book on the subject written by a (Jewish) stand-up comedian-turned-political-commentator named Aron Flam. The book is titled "This is a Swedish Tiger" [2] ("Det här är en svensk tiger", a pun on a Swedish wartime motto which relies on the double meaning of the term "en svensk tiger" in Swedish which means both "a swedish tiger" as well as "a swede keeps silent" and thus served the same purpose as "loose lips sink ships" for the allies and "feind hört mit" (the enemy is listening) for the Germans). In this book Flam describes how the Swedish state tried to profit from its "neutrality" by trading with Nazi Germany, allowing German troop transports to use the Swedish railroads while denying the Norwegian king to cross the border in order to flee those same troops, providing the German war machinery with vital components like ball bearings (a Swedish invention and speciality. the well-known SKF brand stands for "Svenska Kullagerfabriken", "Swedish Ball Bearing Factory"). The book is available in e-Book form in English, just search for "This is a Swedish Tiger" wherever you tend to search for books.

[1] https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/J-passen

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Det_h%C3%A4r_%C3%A4r_en_svensk...

There are some differences. Sweden, for various reasons, seems to cluster immigrants into fewer places with more of them all together. And the clustering creates service shortages for police, social services, jobs, etc. This makes for more kids that should be in school to not be in school, and also higher unemployment than there would be if they were more spread out. That heavy clustering also creates fewer opportunities to integrate with the locals, so the immigrant communities are more insular. All of that makes it easier for extremists to recruit, intimidate, organize, etc.

Do you have any references that Sweden clusters more immigrants to fewer places than anyone else? Housing doesn't just pop out of thin air. We have 3 cities with over 200k in population. Otherwise top 10 is 100k+. Just last year we took in 100k. Do you expect us to just pop up houses uniformly? One here, one there? Of course clusters build with the magnitudes we take in.

Your Prime Minister talked about it: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/sweden-s-prime-minister-call...

But, that thing you're citing about a limited number of cities that could handle immigration is a good example of why it might be different for Sweden vs Germany.

It's hard to imagine that if a huge number of Swedes were dumped in close proximity in Somalia, that they would sit around collecting benefits, forming gangs to beat, rape, and rob the native people, and blame it all on the Somalis and their government for not giving them enough handouts and advantages to succeed.

There's some other cause (which can't be said aloud).

If a bunch of Swedes were dumped in Somalia, the locals would tell them to go fuck themselves and go back to their own country.

I don't think the problem here is what you're thinking but not saying. I think the problem is that suckers get took, to be crass. And to continue in that spirit, no self respecting nation of people would spread their buttcheeks and let the whole world have a go. It seems to me the Swedish have outlived their lifespan as a nation. I suppose it's the natural order of things, meek, defenseless tribes and nations don't last very long.

Yes, instead they are raping girls at the New Year in Cologne; routinely stabbing people left and right; causing mayhem in most summer swimming pools to the point that they now have to be heavily policed or even closed like they do in many other European areas full of Middle-eastern immigrants who can't see a women without a burka without wanting to rape her... oh but wait, it's because they weren't given that villa, BMW, and the 7-figure salary job as neurosurgeon by those damned white racists !

Taking this comment thread into account, I'll just add submissions about gang violance in Sweden to the list of submissions I routinely flag. Along with discussions about the homeless and crime in SF. None of the comment under those submissions are worthy of what HN is supposed to be.

You are right, refugees in germany seem to prefer stabbing minor girls with knives. Watch out for ghetto streets, there might be grenades coming soon.

And there I was, believing our immigrant were all rapists. At last that's what our far right wants us to believe... Isn't stabbing the UK-based immigrant problem?

So if it's "racist" you are implying that you identified a certain "race" while the comment was mentioning immigrants, which could well be white but apparently you have other non-white immigrants in mind and therefore came yourself to a "racist" conclusion ?

Police in Germany is a bit more strict about grenades than the one in Sweden.

In bigger German train stations you regularly see machine-gun armed police.

Sub-machine guns, I have yet to see police carrying MG3s... And that has nothing to do with illegal hand grenades...

If the distinction is irrelevant, "machine gun" is an appropriate term to refer to any fully automatic firearm.

Machine guns fire rifle cartridges

Grenades are just one of many symptoms, one which does seem oddly specific to Sweden. There are unprecedented (by modern European standards) problems everywhere they go. Germany has some shocking reports from their Christmas festivals, for example.

There have been problems with rape and other crimes in Germany. Not sure it's working well either.