Ideally, people should be given options. Teach them how they can possibly control their concentration and mood, how (what) to eat healthy avoiding deficits and excesses which make that hard, remove anxiety-inducing, depressing and distracting factors then give them the meds to try and let them decide what do they feel like sticking to. Sadly, most of the people don't get any of these things: they are not really taught anything, their works and lives are crazy and the meds are either illegal or very hard to get prescribed (especially if you are an adult) outside of the USA.

Your point is very interesting though. It sounds pretty obvious but I never thought about this this way. I am going to look some proofs up and steal this for future arguments.

Vyvanse is so safe there's no need to give people "options" instead of it. Especially since non-medical "options" barely work on people with ADHD unless they spend almost all their effort 24/7 on coping.

I once secured a box of Ritalin. It does wonders to me (sadly it was never possible for me to receive legally) but I feel the way I don't quite like once it wears off in some hours. Is Vyvanse better? At the same time as I slowly work on the other options I mentioned I get the sense of meaning, improvement, progress in gaining what will stay with me wherever I go. Practicing and progressing in these feel like the very sense my job makes, otherwise it would feel like "work another month, pay the bills, grow the savings a bit and gain nothing real". So I stick to the options and take the meds sporadically. And I don't quite like the idea of putting ever-increasing stress and suboptimal working and living conditions on people and sort of telling them "just take your meds and work".

Amphetamines like Vyvanse are associated less with the so-called "rebound effect", which sounds like what you're experiencing.

It's actually pretty strong for me and I don't even take much. It's better with a secondary nonstimulant medication, but it's happened to me that I'd suddenly not have the willpower to go home from work or would have to nap around 6pm.

That said, the nonstimulant ADHD meds all have worse side effects and can't be discontinued without tapering.

I think Ritalin is safest. Vyvanse can have some fairly serious mental side effects: mania, bi polar tendencies: New or worse behavior and thought problems New or worse bipolar illness New or worse psychotic symptoms, such as: Seeing things or hearing voices that are not real Believing things that are not true Being suspicious New or worse manic symptoms. Depression, suicidal thoughts.

And then there are people who hallucinate on methylphenidate (ritalin) and are perfectly fine on amphetamines.

Don’t people acclimatise to them? Biggest reason I don’t take Vyanse is because I’m worried it’ll stop working (like modafinil did) but leave me addicted to it

Modafinil is not known to develop tolerance. (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01650...)

Vyvanse does, but it's not a problem, just take a magnesium supplement if it happens.

Magnesium glycinate Nattokinase Bromelain NAC fish oil

First I've heard of nattokinase and it doesn't have relevant evidence on examine.com.

Natto is a good source of vitamin K though, if you want stronger bones.

Would you share the reasoning for each of these? Never heard of taking anything to help ward off Terrance of ADHD med

Sure, you're going to feel like crap for a week or so if you stop Vyvanse after taking it for a while (I know I did). But since a therapeutical dose is nowhere near a recreational one, the risk of developing a craving for it (which is really what addiction is all about) is low.

Heck, I've had more problems weaning myself off of diclofenac.

Long part of my life on Adderall and decent amount on Vyvanse at one point and never noticed any actual addictive cravings, like you mention.

Sure, when I stop I feel kinda crappy... But... I'm not on a stimulant that I had been on. I'm just not as 'up'. Not as focused. Etc. Never any actual withdrawals or cravings for either though. Gets very tiring how many people that probably never have regularly used either like to pull out their megaphones and yell about how they are addictive.

Why don't we worry about ultra processed foods, high sugar intake... Things like that that are actually a problem for a LOT of people? People focus on the oddest things.

I think to an extent this is essentially just redirecting the preexisting addiction (edit: remove issues) onto a drug that simply produces normative behavior, specifically behavior that conforms with modern society's idea of a highly productive and obedient individual.

For those that aren't already addicted to something, say those with adhd, I wonder to what extent their environment is causing the issues that they seek to solve with a stimulant.

Without medication, I feel much less in control of my mind. It's like I'm in a mind-fog; every long-term thought is blurry and vague so everything tends to become about the short-term. I know that eating this sugary garbage is bad for me but the immediate dopamine gratification massively outweighs that knowledge. Same with tasks I know I need to complete. I know that doing them is the correct thing to do and that procrastinating on them will not be beneficial for me overall, but I just can't "see" that future in my mind.

I don't think this is caused by my environment. Feeling like you are unable to think a clear thought is not because clear thoughts conform with modern society's ideas of a highly productive an obedient individual. For me it's simply a feeling of not being a whole human. Medication addresses this to a very significant degree, although it's by no means a complete fix.

I also use glasses, and I find similarities there. Without them my eyesight is blurry and I cannot see things beyond a very short distance. Are glasses simply producing normative behavior that conforms with modern society's idea of a highly productive and obedient individual? Is it really the environment that is causing me to think of bad eyesight as an issue to be addressed? Obviously not; being able to see clearly is something you want regardless of environment. I think that the same applies to being able to think clearly.

Well I am all for legalisation in general, but replacing illegal drugs with legal drugs other than doing something that is acceptable for the society, being the illegal drugs non-accepted, it would also mean that you aren't going to fund drug cartels, ghettos, traffickers, or in general you're not going to end up in a morgue with fentanyl, so for me, in modern context, that's still a big win