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Re:Open-Source Washing by ekiim on Sunday August 27, 2023 @07:19PM (#37287609)
Doesn't he mean FOSS, not just open source, free and open are two different things.
Re:Open-Source Washing by QuiDortDine on Monday August 28, 2023 @01:03AM (#37289964)
Yes, I don't know how one can be able to cite sources yet be so ill-informed. This article probably doesn't mean anything to anyone. Open source means you get the source, that's it. OSI is a good reference, but it's not the boss of definitions.
Re:Open-Source Washing by Flimm on Monday August 28, 2023 @01:11AM (#37290015)
No, open source doesn't just mean that you get the source. This is the open source definition, the only commonly used definition used in the software world:

https://opensource.org/osd/

The first sentence says:

> Open source doesn’t just mean access to the source code. The distribution terms of open-source software must comply with the following criteria:

In particular, all commercial usage must be allowed, otherwise, it is not open source.

Re:Open-Source Washing by lucasfcosta on Monday August 28, 2023 @01:10AM (#37290011)
I appreciate the input, even though I don't necessarily agree.

Indeed, "open source" taken at face value could be interpreted as "source available", but given the historical context, that's not what the term intends to represent.

It's because of this dissonance that I think it's important to make differences clear. Perhaps "free software" has always been a better name, but I think the community needs to come to an agreement on this.

Re:Open-Source Washing by Denote6737 on Monday August 28, 2023 @01:53AM (#37290276)
Free software comes with its own issues and connotations.

Most people see free and think without cost.

So is shareware free software?

Re:Open-Source Washing by commoner on Monday August 28, 2023 @05:33AM (#37291704)
Shareware is not free software, since it does not provide users the right to inspect or modify the software. It is also not freeware, since some or all of its features are not available free of charge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shareware

Re:Open-Source Washing by skoob on Monday August 28, 2023 @02:34AM (#37290579)
The term "opensource software" was coined by the OSI founders explicitly to have the meaning they laid out in the Open Source Definition. The term didn't exist before that.
Re:Open-Source Washing by jongjong on Monday August 28, 2023 @02:15AM (#37290452)
Interestingly, FOSS means more freedom for the code and for the end user of the code but less freedom for any developer or company who might be producing and/or hosting the code.

The copyleft requirement of GNU licenses restrict what a developer and/or company can do with the code since it forces them to make any derived code public... Which is generally undesirable for commercial projects; especially early in their lifecycles when bugs may be present and would be best kept private until the project has been more battle-tested.

GPL licenses are a good way to ensnare businesses and then up-sell other software licenses that are more suited for commercial use.

Re:Open-Source Washing by jj999 on Monday August 28, 2023 @02:31AM (#37290553)
Except the developer of the code is not binded by the copyleft restriction. The developer can take his own code, modify it, and not release any modification.

The copyleft requirement restrict what others developers can do with the code. If they don't like it... well, who are they to use the code at all?

Re:Open-Source Washing by jongjong on Monday August 28, 2023 @03:32AM (#37290964)
Yes agreed, the original developer is not bound since they still retain the copyright. I meant to say 'reproducing' the code, not 'producing'. Only the developers of derived code are restricted.
Re:Open-Source Washing by phoenk on Monday August 28, 2023 @02:48AM (#37290662)
> Which is generally undesirable for commercial projects; especially early in their lifecycles when bugs may be present and would be best kept private until the project has been more battle-tested.

Copyleft only kicks in on redistribution. If you're only testing internally, you don't need to distribute source code. It's only once you distribute that software that you also need to distribute source.

Re:Open-Source Washing by tzs on Monday August 28, 2023 @03:10AM (#37290816)
> Copyleft only kicks in on redistribution

That used to be true, but AGPL changed that. Now it can kick in if you let others interact with the program on your computer.

Re:Open-Source Washing by CRConrad on Wednesday September 06, 2023 @02:06AM (#37401792)
Because that arguably is distribution.
Re:Open-Source Washing by erhaetherth on Monday August 28, 2023 @02:57AM (#37290727)
What counts as 'distribution'? If the public can connect to my server, do I have to share my server code?
Re:Open-Source Washing by benj111 on Monday August 28, 2023 @03:06AM (#37290794)
Depends on the license.

Most don't require it, agpl3 does.

(Edit Agpl3)

Re:Open-Source Washing by littlestymaar on Monday August 28, 2023 @03:03AM (#37290769)
Depends on the actual license: if it's regular GPL, the answer is no. If it's AGPL, then yes.
Re:Open-Source Washing by jj999 on Monday August 28, 2023 @03:21AM (#37290896)
Say I use a software with AGPL as license on my server. If my server doesn't output anything AGPL-licensed to its clients, where is the distribution? If there is no distribution, how can the AGPL be enforced?
Re:Open-Source Washing by littlestymaar on Monday August 28, 2023 @03:49AM (#37291070)
> If my server doesn't output anything AGPL-licensed to its clients,

The IP (intellectual property) of the code has no relationship whatsoever with the IP of the content being served by the served.

> where is the distribution?

You setting up a production server counts as “distributing the service” in AGPL's definition, as AGPL is aimed directly at the SaaS business model.

So if you use an AGPL software on your server, you need to provide the source code (including any changes/customization you've made) to your users. BTW this is a common misconception with GPL, nobody forces you to publish the code in public like on github or anything, it could be behind a login form reserved to your customers only. But you need to give them to your customers under the same AGPL license, so if they want to publish it on github themselves, or fork it and make a business out of it, they can.

Re:Open-Source Washing by funcDropShadow on Monday August 28, 2023 @03:04AM (#37290776)
No.
Re:Open-Source Washing by CRConrad on Wednesday September 06, 2023 @02:05AM (#37401782)
> Interestingly, FOSS means more freedom for the code and for the end user of the code but less freedom for any developer or company who might be reproducing and/or hosting the code.

Yeah, exactly like a ban on slavery means less freedom for those who would own, beed, and rent out slave labour. Are we supposed to cry at this evil restriction in the freedom of would-be slave owners, boo-hoo, and allow slavery in the name of freedom?

> The copyleft requirement of GNU licenses restrict what a developer and/or company can do with the code since it forces them to make any derived code public... Which is generally undesirable for commercial projects; especially early in their lifecycles when bugs may be present and would be best kept private until the project has been more battle-tested.

It's supposed to restrict that, just like laws are supposed to remove your "freedom" to murder or take slaves. Copyleft exists for the public good, not for commercial projects. It doesn't need to be "desirable" for them.

> GPL licenses are a good way to ensnare businesses and then up-sell other software licenses that are more suited for commercial use.

Utterly weird take.