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Re:We are not empty: The concept of the atomic void is a mis... by jprete on Friday August 25, 2023 @11:24PM (#37269693)
This is not at all what happened. \Rutherford, Geiger, and Marsden ran an experiment. The data was totally incompatible with a solid blob of atomic mass, but instead suggested that the positive charge of the atom was concentrated into a tiny space.
Re:We are not empty: The concept of the atomic void is a mis... by aeternum on Saturday August 26, 2023 @12:57AM (#37270059)
Yes but why is positive all we care about when it comes to the definition of space? If we fire neutrinos, basically 100% of the atom is 'empty space'. If we fire protons, 99% is empty. If we fire electrons, none is empty.

Why do we say it is mostly empty just because of 2/3 of these things don't interact? Disproving the plum-pudding model was significant but saying the atom is 99% empty space is misleading. We know there are billions of virtual particles appearing and disappearing all the time within the atom and space, they just cancel out.

Re:We are not empty: The concept of the atomic void is a mis... by ersatz_username on Saturday August 26, 2023 @03:38AM (#37270621)
The word “empty” carries no semantic content under this construction of the term. Terms like “empty” are always used contextually, hence, why only a fool would correct their partner for mentioning the empty refrigerator by remarking on the presence of air.

Unless you think Sagan would have been surprised by the presence of an electric field (mediated by virtual particles…) between electrons and protons in an atom it’s quite likely you’re choosing an obtuse understanding of the term.

Re:We are not empty: The concept of the atomic void is a mis... by aeternum on Sunday August 27, 2023 @02:00PM (#37285105)
This is kind of my point, Sagan was a great science communicator but really missed the mark here.

A solid wood table is not mostly empty by any common contextual definition. Photons do not pass through it freely, your hand won't pass through it freely, and the electron clouds of the carbon atoms in the wood are physical in almost every common sense of the term. They very much push back on any other electron cloud that comes near enough and are generally the only part of the atom that does the interacting.

While it might be true that almost all the mass is concentrated in the center of the atom, that's not what people mean by empty. Houses aren't considered empty just because most of the mass is in the foundation.

Re:We are not empty: The concept of the atomic void is a mis... by gus_massa on Saturday August 26, 2023 @10:27AM (#37273234)
I agree it's more complicated and the technical term is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_section_(physics) For each particle, it's different acording to what is hitting it.

Anyway, for atoms we mostly care about colisions with charged particles. I'd say that they are almost empty.