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Re:Princeton ‘AI Snake Oil’ authors say GenAI hype has ‘spir... by lIIllIIllIIllII on Wednesday August 23, 2023 @09:29PM (#37244056)
I'm routinely using LLMs in place of search engines. Would you rather type in a cocktail and instantly get a recipe? or do you want to open google, scroll past 50 ads, click through a bunch of blogspam that gives you the history of cocktails, the prohibition, the chemical formula for ethanol and their life story, followed by a recipe that was itself generated by a substandard AI model anyway

edit: I'm prepared for the enshittification of GenAI, but given competitive edge, many people will pay top $ for faster/higher parameter inference, I'm hoping ad support is minimal on the super deluxe god tier AI subscription which I'll have to pile all of my spare cash into.

Re:Princeton ‘AI Snake Oil’ authors say GenAI hype has ‘spir... by danmur on Wednesday August 23, 2023 @09:37PM (#37244094)
If you pay for search you get some of those benefits already
Re:Princeton ‘AI Snake Oil’ authors say GenAI hype has ‘spir... by chargingmarmot on Wednesday August 23, 2023 @11:24PM (#37244647)
Sincere question: what paid search do you have in mind?

How conceptually could a paid search engine solve the problem of SEO and spam? (Curation seems economically infeasible?)

Is what you're actually proposing ad-free search results? (I'd be willing to pay Google approximately $0.01 per search for this. I suspect this is probably more than they get from anything but the most expensive ads (pharma ads that confused old people will click on).)

What I would really love is a browsing-assistance agent based on something like GPT that can summarize and de-cruft search results for me and show me content extracted from web pages in a standard format without any Javascript.

Re:Princeton ‘AI Snake Oil’ authors say GenAI hype has ‘spir... by lhl on Thursday August 24, 2023 @01:35AM (#37245382)
Kagi https://kagi.com/ is the paid search I've tried. It's was decent, but not a noticeable enough improvement to win me over as a customer.

OTOH, I am a paying ChatGPT Plus user and there are some days where I feel like I get my monthly subscription price's worth in a single day.

In terms of summarization, this study Anyscale just published is interesting - llama2-70b gets within a hairsbreadth of gpt-4/human scores for summarization, so it's conceivable that sometime soon, you might be able to run a local LLM on your browser and get decent results (4-bit quants of llama2-70b currently take about 40GB of memory, you need at least 2 x 24GB or 1 x 48GB GPU to run them at reasonable speeds atm): https://www.anyscale.com/blog/llama-2-is-about-as-factually-...

Re:Princeton ‘AI Snake Oil’ authors say GenAI hype has ‘spir... by girvo on Wednesday August 23, 2023 @11:47PM (#37244800)
Who do I pay for better search? Honest question, I'd love a recommendation.
Re:Princeton ‘AI Snake Oil’ authors say GenAI hype has ‘spir... by lelandbatey on Thursday August 24, 2023 @12:31AM (#37245011)
https://kagi.com/ is the one I see recommended. The results went to focus hard on "no blogspam" which is nice, and supposedly you can completely ban whole sites from your results forever (e.g. goodbye GeeksForGeeks and your shit SEO hacking)
Re:Princeton ‘AI Snake Oil’ authors say GenAI hype has ‘spir... by runnerup on Thursday August 24, 2023 @02:24AM (#37245664)
I like Phind
Re:Princeton ‘AI Snake Oil’ authors say GenAI hype has ‘spir... by __loam on Wednesday August 23, 2023 @10:13PM (#37244288)
I have two concerns when people tell me they're using this stuff like a search engine:

1. How expensive are these to operate when compared to search engines? If search engines are about as good at information retrieval, but are much cheaper, what does that mean for the future of these services?

2. How good are these systems actually when compared to search engines? I get that for things like code, you can immediately verify results through testing, but GPT was trained on what looks good to humans thanks to HFRL, not necessarily for correctness.

I really wonder what's going to happen with this comparison in the near future. I think there's two possibilities:

1. Running inference on models and keeping the models relevant by introducing new data remains extremely expensive and companies like OpenAI operate at massive losses. Eventually this leads to their products getting worse.

2. Models get cheaper to run and efficient enough to run on mobile hardware without losing much fidelity. OpenAI still might be in trouble in this scenario if "open source" models like Llama2 get popular.

Re:Princeton ‘AI Snake Oil’ authors say GenAI hype has ‘spir... by riku_iki on Wednesday August 23, 2023 @11:18PM (#37244616)
> or do you want to open google, scroll past 50 ads, click through a bunch of blogspam that gives you the history of cocktails, the prohibition, the chemical formula for ethanol and their life story

I think in this aspect the difference between GPT vs Google not in level of tech, but because GPT took text from copyright owners and distributes it without their consent and without showing their ads, which is being challenged legally in my understanding.

Re:Princeton ‘AI Snake Oil’ authors say GenAI hype has ‘spir... by struant on Wednesday August 23, 2023 @11:58PM (#37244863)
Doesn't matter. If governments blunder this and try to enforce copyrights in AI, then we are all going to be using Chinese AI in 5 years instead of Google because they don't give a damn about copyright.
Re:Princeton ‘AI Snake Oil’ authors say GenAI hype has ‘spir... by riku_iki on Thursday August 24, 2023 @12:16AM (#37244942)
CCP already created its own regulation rules for AI.
Re:Princeton ‘AI Snake Oil’ authors say GenAI hype has ‘spir... by mthoms on Thursday August 24, 2023 @01:22AM (#37245318)
And what does it say about copyright? Genuinely curious.
Re:Princeton ‘AI Snake Oil’ authors say GenAI hype has ‘spir... by riku_iki on Thursday August 24, 2023 @01:28AM (#37245357)
internet articles say something about copyright protection, but more important part is that AI has two promote core values of socialism and avoid statement criticizing Chinese government.
Re:Princeton ‘AI Snake Oil’ authors say GenAI hype has ‘spir... by daveguy on Thursday August 24, 2023 @03:24PM (#37253433)
Interesting that the CCP rules for AI are the same as the rules for any meatI under their control. At least they are consistent.
Re:Princeton ‘AI Snake Oil’ authors say GenAI hype has ‘spir... by aperrien on Thursday August 24, 2023 @12:30AM (#37245010)
Or you can run your own open source AI, on your own hardware.
Re:Princeton ‘AI Snake Oil’ authors say GenAI hype has ‘spir... by yeahwhatever10 on Thursday August 24, 2023 @01:07AM (#37245227)
I prefer search engines because I can look through multiple sources. LLMs just give an answer without context or what alternatives might be. They make it difficult to judge to validity of the response.
Re:Princeton ‘AI Snake Oil’ authors say GenAI hype has ‘spir... by bsilvereagle on Thursday August 24, 2023 @01:27AM (#37245350)
perplexity.ai usually gives 4-6 sources that you can validate the response with.

As far as I can tell, it performs a search and then feeds the full text of the search results to an LLM and present a summary with citations.

Re:Princeton ‘AI Snake Oil’ authors say GenAI hype has ‘spir... by theonlybutlet on Thursday August 24, 2023 @03:12AM (#37245943)
Not all questions need a variety of answers. If its good enough for your needs go for it. Saves some time searching.
Re:Princeton ‘AI Snake Oil’ authors say GenAI hype has ‘spir... by Turskarama on Thursday August 24, 2023 @01:57AM (#37245496)
It depends on how important it is that I get a precisely correct answer. For a cocktail it's not a big deal if I get one that's slightly different, in other cases an incorrect answer might be catastrophic.
Re:Princeton ‘AI Snake Oil’ authors say GenAI hype has ‘spir... by md_ on Thursday August 24, 2023 @03:08AM (#37245927)
Amusingly, Kevin Roose and Casey Newton made a ChatGPT-authored cocktail recipe on "Hard Fork" a while back: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/30/podcasts/hard-fork-ai-poi....

I think the review was basically, "I’ve had worse cocktails. I’ll be honest."

So...meh?

Re:Princeton ‘AI Snake Oil’ authors say GenAI hype has ‘spir... by theonlybutlet on Thursday August 24, 2023 @03:10AM (#37245935)
Using bing chat, you always just check the source of its answer if it's crucial. Saves time searching.