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Re:Tesla asked officials to redact info of driver-assistance... by honeybadger1 on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @01:38PM (#37226084)
I have had both experiences. It has literally taken me all the way from Miami to Atlanta at least 6 times without issue and basically only disengaging when there is heavy road work spots and then I turn it back on. I have also used it to go from Miami to Key West 3 times back and fourth with almost no interaction other than road work situations.

That being said, when I visited areas with very little road traffic like in central Florida or in country areas in Georgia, it is very hesitant and I can only assume because of the lack of training data. Simple things like left turns become overly hesitant or it goes into a middle turning lane thinking it's a new lane because the lines are rough or non-existent.

I love using it for long trips, it has changed my quality of life when it comes to driving. I simply do not agree calling it 'rubbish' is fair at all and really is a gross oversimplification of it's faults in situations.

Re:Tesla asked officials to redact info of driver-assistance... by rvnx on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @01:41PM (#37226132)
If you want to try something different for long roads, you can take a look at Mercedes cars.

Not only they are very comfortable and reliable for such, but also the manufacturer takes the legal responsibility when level 3 mode is activated, whereas if you use a Tesla, it is always your responsibility.

Means a lot.

Re:Tesla asked officials to redact info of driver-assistance... by honeybadger1 on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @01:43PM (#37226161)
You presume too much on what I currently own and have owned. Tesla's software is far superior even with its weaknesses.
Re:Tesla asked officials to redact info of driver-assistance... by hcazz on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @01:56PM (#37226349)
Not going to assume what you have and haven't owned before, but your statement here is objectively false:

>Tesla's software is far superior even with its weaknesses.

https://www.engadget.com/mercedes-becomes-the-first-automake...

If Tesla's software was objectively better, why couldn't they get L3 approval in California?

Re:Tesla asked officials to redact info of driver-assistance... by rvnx on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @02:09PM (#37226518)
In general, Tesla has tons of capabilities, it's like a bleeding-edge toy that can handle lot of urban scenarios.

This YouTube channel shows a lot of real-life experience (in the US, because in Europe it cannot do much):

https://www.youtube.com/c/AIDRIVR

The concern is more about all the boring scenarios / basic safety features like highways, pedestrian detection, etc.

It is a bit suspicious that Tesla systematically rejects the fault on the driver

(and that is something where I think Tesla should improve).

It's a great car though, but it sometimes gives a strong feeling of highly experimental / unstable platform

rather than a super safe car where you'd want to bring your wife and kids.

Re:Tesla asked officials to redact info of driver-assistance... by belltaco on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @03:37PM (#37227556)
Mercedes L3 has significant limitations.

It works only on highways, only in daylight, only when there's a lot of traffic, only under 40mph. Tesla's software does not have those limitations, so yes, it's objectively far superior than a glorified 'follow the car in front and do what it does' simple software that Mercedes is pushing.

Re:Tesla asked officials to redact info of driver-assistance... by honeybadger1 on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @04:13PM (#37227941)
He or she does not care so I don't even bother. I have already discovered here that people hate Elon therefore hate everything under his eye regardless of the facts around the successes of Tesla's engineering teams that have nothing to do with his personal politics or viewpoints.

This is fine, I enjoy my car and since I am the highest authority of myself, I do not need their validation of my personal experiences I have first hand.

Re:Tesla asked officials to redact info of driver-assistance... by hcazz on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @05:13PM (#37228605)
https://www.sae.org/blog/sae-j3016-update

With Tesla's Autopilot, you are driving the vehicle.

With Mercedes new L3 system (which I'm going to assume you haven't ever used, since it isn't available yet on a vehicle for purchase), the vehicle is driving.

This isn't about Elon, it's about the capabilities of the vehicle you're sitting in. You're also ignoring TFA -- if Tesla's Autopilot is the best thing on the market, why are they asking officials to redact information on whether or not someone got into accidents while using it?

Re:Tesla asked officials to redact info of driver-assistance... by hcazz on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @05:23PM (#37228707)
Yeah, there are significant limitations to camera based systems. Although for Mercedes, I'd argue it's significantly more than:

>'follow the car in front and do what it does'

which is describing adaptive cruise control/radar based cruise control which has been on the market in vehicles for over two decades.

>Tesla's software does not have those limitations

Recklessly enabling a half baked vision only autopilot doesn't mean it's "superior". There's a reason actual self driving car companies (Cruise, Waymo, etc) report disengagements per mile as a means to show how "self driving" their vehicles actually are.

Until Tesla self-reports this data, it's nothing but a toy, and I wish folks the best who actually trust their life with it. [0]

>Officially, Telsa describes Autopilot as "an SAE Level 2 driving automation system designed to support and assist the driver in performing the driving task," as cited by NHTSA. Autopilot is not an autonomous driving technology, but the new numbers suggest people are treating it that way, sometimes resulting in tragedy.

[0] - https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a44185487/report-tesla-aut...

Re:Tesla asked officials to redact info of driver-assistance... by benatkin on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @01:56PM (#37226358)
Easy to prod and be assured of a fan bias
Re:Tesla asked officials to redact info of driver-assistance... by belltaco on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @03:34PM (#37227512)
> but also the manufacturer takes the legal responsibility when level 3 mode is activated

Source? It turns out that was just marketing material from what I have read and they don't actually indemnify you.

Re:Tesla asked officials to redact info of driver-assistance... by Kirby64 on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @03:43PM (#37227620)
For long road trips mainly on the highway, I don't think the Mercedes tech is particularly helpful. Their level 3 solution is only level 3 when it's below 40 mph and during the day. Most road trips (at least in the US) are highway >50mph.

It seems much more useful for city commuting where < 40 mph is much more common.

Re:Tesla asked officials to redact info of driver-assistance... by esalman on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @01:59PM (#37226404)
If you use trains for long trips it will change your QoL even more.
Re:Tesla asked officials to redact info of driver-assistance... by benatkin on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @02:09PM (#37226523)
There was a train to Key West long ago. Now there is just the one highway. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_Railroad
Re:Tesla asked officials to redact info of driver-assistance... by esalman on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @03:34PM (#37227516)
Interesting. We actually saw the rail lines when we visited Key West.
Re:Tesla asked officials to redact info of driver-assistance... by ProjectArcturis on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @02:20PM (#37226642)
You didn't say which direction QoL would change, so I guess this is technically correct.
Re:Tesla asked officials to redact info of driver-assistance... by esalman on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @03:30PM (#37227467)
Only in America will people crap on public transportation, at their own expense.
Re:Tesla asked officials to redact info of driver-assistance... by ProjectArcturis on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @04:16PM (#37227979)
I guess you're welcome to take the 44-hour train from Chicago to Los Angeles if you want. Most folks will just fly there in a few hours.
Re:Tesla asked officials to redact info of driver-assistance... by anaganisk on Wednesday August 23, 2023 @01:43AM (#37232254)
What kind of a comparison is that, lol. Argument is Car vs Train not the Plane vs Train. Trains are always better than a car for the same distance planned.
Re:Tesla asked officials to redact info of driver-assistance... by jwestbury on Wednesday August 23, 2023 @03:47AM (#37232973)
This still really depends on locale. Don't get me wrong here, I love trains. I'm currently living in the UK, and we're taking the Eurostar to Amsterdam next month instead of flying, even though it's more expensive and slower. And when I was in the US, I took Amtrak from Seattle to New York.

But the reality is, trains are less flexible and generally slower than driving in the US. They may reduce stress, and they're definitely safer, but the trade-offs mean they aren't objectively better. For instance, Amtrak from Seattle to Portland is about 3.5 hours, and this is one of the fastest-traveling routes in the US (except the Acela); meanwhile, driving is a shorter journey on a good day, though it could be five hours or more on a bad day. Still, Amtrak is known for its delays, and there's travel to the station. When I lived in Seattle, Amtrak would probably take me around 5 hours, on average, door-to-door, whereas driving would still be about 3.5 hours on a good day, because I could start from home and go directly to my destination.

And, once you're at your destination, you have more options with a car. From Portland, I could drive out to Multnomah Falls; there are no good public transit options for that.

I wish trains in the US were better... but they aren't.

Re:Tesla asked officials to redact info of driver-assistance... by esalman on Thursday August 24, 2023 @04:28PM (#37254137)