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Re:American workers are demanding almost $80k a year to take... by MattPalmer1086 on Monday August 21, 2023 @12:01PM (#37211405)
I think you have it backwards.

Houses could only be priced such that a single income could buy them when most women did not work. Or nobody could buy them.

Once you have couples competing to buy that same housing stock, it becomes increasingly hard for a single income to compete and the price rises to match what the market can support.

Re:American workers are demanding almost $80k a year to take... by afavour on Monday August 21, 2023 @12:22PM (#37211709)
> Houses could only be priced

> the price rises

ah, the swirling anonymity of "market forces"! These are all active decisions made by people, not forces of nature.

You're not wrong, of course, but it's worth looking at it from another angle. A house for a dual income family does not cost more to build than a house for a single income family. In a world where housing is considered more of a human right than an investment vehicle prices could have stayed low, more could be built, faster. Instead we live in a world where everyone must work more in order for their quality of life to stand still. I think it's permissible to be angry about that.

Re:American workers are demanding almost $80k a year to take... by MattPalmer1086 on Monday August 21, 2023 @01:35PM (#37212760)
Oh, I completely agree that it's reasonable to be angry we have to pay more for the same or less. And our family is single income so it's been really hard for us.

It doesn't take houses to be considered investment vehicles by anyone though for this to happen (even if some people do). Just more and cheaper money available to throw at the same things.

Re:American workers are demanding almost $80k a year to take... by ch4s3 on Monday August 21, 2023 @12:14PM (#37211592)
This is exactly the point I'm making. Home ownership rates are still at about 66% of households in the US but median household income has risen dramatically and interest rates have been very low so there has been a lot of room for home prices to increase. Supply has also lagged and labor costs have also risen.
Re:American workers are demanding almost $80k a year to take... by seanmcdirmid on Monday August 21, 2023 @05:54PM (#37215871)
That assumes that women working weren’t producing anything, and the construction industry didn’t get more workers as women joined the workforce. Neither are true, our society is actually wealthier with more production, but because land is limited (and doesn’t expand with working population growth), we use some of that more wealth to bid up desirable housing.
Re:American workers are demanding almost $80k a year to take... by MattPalmer1086 on Monday August 21, 2023 @06:20PM (#37216127)
> That assumes that women working weren’t producing anything, and the construction industry didn’t get more workers as women joined the workforce.

No such assumptions are necessary or intended. It doesn't make sense to assume working women produced nothing. I have no idea whether the construction industry took on more workers or not when women joined the workforce.

Regardless, most couples tend to buy one house, and two people's incomes can outbid one person's. That is all that it is necessary to assume.

Re:American workers are demanding almost $80k a year to take... by seanmcdirmid on Monday August 21, 2023 @06:41PM (#37216321)
Yes, but that income should equal production, so either more housing is produced, or something else more is produced, and either gets cheaper or we have more stuff. I guess it’s a combination of all three, our society is definitely wealthier with more people working, we are better off than we were in the 1950s. So…somehow our increased housing costs either mean we are getting more housing somehow, or we get other things which make up for the more money we have to put toward housing.
Re:American workers are demanding almost $80k a year to take... by MattPalmer1086 on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @03:45AM (#37219782)
I think that sounds about right. We are wealthier than in the 1950s. We have super computers in our pockets and a global information network, for example!

For housing though, the economic unit is the household, not the individual, and land and location are not really affected by how much stuff we can produce. So housing costs will always occupy a large fraction of household wealth, no matter how wealthy we become.