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Re:C and C++ Prioritize Performance over Correctness by pjmlp on Saturday August 19, 2023 @06:00AM (#37187170)
Yes you definitly are, given how Modula-2 and Pascal were widely adopted across the European continent, specially in demoscene circles in the PC and Amiga ecosystems.

As if the BBC Micro was an example of the industry adoption at large during those days.

Any Byte, Computer Shopper, DDJ, The C Users Journal (later The C/C++ Users Journal), Crash, Amiga Format, Input, PC Techniques, You Computer, Your Sinclair,... from 1980 - 1995 thereabouts, shows a different picture in article contents and ad sections, in terms of language adoption and available set of compilers being sold.

Re:C and C++ Prioritize Performance over Correctness by jacquesm on Saturday August 19, 2023 @06:43AM (#37187400)
I'm not sure why this upsets you as much as it does. For me the 'common' languages in use were various flavors of BASIC, COBOL, various flavors of Assembly and C in that order and those were doing a lot of work compared to the rest of the large number of languages that was technically available. I personally liked and worked with many more but they weren't exactly in mainstream use even though you could get them if you wanted to.

It's a bit like me saying that today Erlang is widely adopted. Yes it is, in some circles and I absolutely love it. But even though it has some adoption the big heavy lifters today are Python, C++, C and Java. Maybe C# on account of MS and probably Javascript should rate a mention. That doesn't mean that the other 2500 or so computer programming languages do not exist or do not have relevance. But it is a realistic reflection of market share. At the computer store where I occasionally worked you could see this reflected in the requests for boxed copies of compilers and interpreters for various languages.

FoxPRO + Delphi became a very powerful combination for SME administrative systems (and before that DBIII) and once Apple launched Objective-C that got some significant market share on their platform too. But any kind of commercially developed software outside of those niches was likely to be built on the list above.

I've taken a great interest in various programming languages and learned a lot of them to the point that I could write code in them to compare them, so I'm well aware all of these (and many more!) existed. The machines I worked with were: Dragon32, BBC Micro, Acorn Atom, Apple II, C64 (though, mostly from a hardware point of view, to fix them), Atari ST (lots of work on that one), IBM PC, some mainframes (notably: IBM 4381, Sperry 1100/90) and probably others that I don't remember right now.

Some of those only had proprietary languages and compilers on them, and on some things were more free. If there was a language on any of those systems that made it large enough to rate an article in the magazines you mentioned I probably played with it. But across all of the people that I worked with at the time I've met exactly one person the programmed in Pascal and they abandoned the project because it was dog slow (it got ported to assembly...) and Modula-2 or Oberon I've never come across in the wild other than with my own experiments.

BASIC, COBOL, Assembly and C were the languages that I recall being in mainstream use. That does not invalidate your experience, it may simply not match mine.

Re:C and C++ Prioritize Performance over Correctness by pjmlp on Saturday August 19, 2023 @10:20AM (#37189057)
Yeah, my experience was indeed something else, regarding the software industry in Iberian Peninsula, Germany, France and Switzerland from 1970's until modern times.

What triggers me is the usual kind of message that C wiped everything away, being the first of its kind, when on other realities, it only started to matter when UNIX tooling became part of the picture.

On my bubble C became a thing, when Windows 3.0 went mainstream.

Coding in C on MS-DOS was mostly preparing exercises for Xenix programming classes, a single tower that students had to take turns on, so we need to prepare everything in advance on Turbo C 2.0.

On Amiga it was mostly Assembly and AMOS, on the demoscene community I was part of.

Re:C and C++ Prioritize Performance over Correctness by jacquesm on Saturday August 19, 2023 @02:27PM (#37191633)
In what year did you start programming professionally and in what languages was that done and on what kind of machines?
Re:C and C++ Prioritize Performance over Correctness by pjmlp on Sunday August 20, 2023 @02:47AM (#37196813)
Ah, trying a trick question?

In 1992, using a mix of Turbo Pascal, DBase III+ and Clipper on MS-DOS computers, and Novell Netware.

Re:C and C++ Prioritize Performance over Correctness by jacquesm on Sunday August 20, 2023 @07:23AM (#37198101)
> Ah, trying a trick question?

No, I was just curious. Why would you even think I was trying to trick you? And into what?

You normally make a ton of sense but in this thread I can't follow you and I sense a ton of emotion and projection that are entirely out of character for you.

Re:C and C++ Prioritize Performance over Correctness by mcguire on Saturday August 19, 2023 @04:17PM (#37192728)
One of my favorite quotes comes from DDJ in the late 80s, from a letter to the editor. Something like:

"Object oriented programming is just functions with persistent state and multiple entry points, and we all learned how bad that was in the 70s."