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Re:Police Are Getting DNA Data from People Who Think They Op... by coldtea on Saturday August 19, 2023 @04:45AM (#37186810)
>No, we should not 'strive to eliminate' them. The entire point of insurance is that it is based on risk assessments that are as accurate as possible, using all the information that is available.

And we should change the law so that point of insurance is made illegal, and insurance companies can only use generic, broad, information about a person, not bend over so that they can maximize their profit margins and minimize their risks.

Re:Police Are Getting DNA Data from People Who Think They Op... by memefrog on Saturday August 19, 2023 @06:35AM (#37187354)
[delayed]
Re:Police Are Getting DNA Data from People Who Think They Op... by timschmidt on Saturday August 19, 2023 @01:45PM (#37191212)
Seems like you're thinking of personal savings accounts. The whole point of insurance is that everyone subsidizes the poor souls who end up needing it. Understanding that the tables could easily be turned.
Re:Police Are Getting DNA Data from People Who Think They Op... by memefrog on Saturday August 19, 2023 @07:52PM (#37194569)
Insurance is about spreading unknown risk. If it is known that you have a higher risk of being paid out then you pay a higher premium. You are hedging against future bad luck (future in the sense of the point in time of the discovery of claimable damage, not when the damage actually occurred, of course).
Re:Police Are Getting DNA Data from People Who Think They Op... by timschmidt on Saturday August 19, 2023 @09:28PM (#37195129)
I think you have been misled. It seems to me that all insurance is purchased to hedge against known risks. Risks like death, which comes for us all. Risks like forest fires, hurricanes, and many other regularly occurring natural disasters. Risks like unemployment which will effect nearly everyone at some point in their life. If the risks were unknown, no one would know that they should be buying insurance to hedge against them.
Re:Police Are Getting DNA Data from People Who Think They Op... by memefrog on Sunday August 20, 2023 @05:49PM (#37203226)
>against known risks. Risks like death, which comes for us all. Risks like forest fires, hurricanes, and many other regularly occurring natural disasters.

These are clearly not known risks. If you knew when you were going to die, you would not purchase life insurance, as the total premiums due by the date of your death would equal or exceed the insured amount.

If you knew a forest fire was bearing down on your house, you wouldn't be able to insure against it. And in many areas prone to forest fires, you cannot insure against them, because they are so likely to occur.

Hurricanes and flooding are similar: build on a floodplain and you will either pay exorbitant amounts for, or be unable to purchase, flooding insurance.

> Risks like unemployment which will effect nearly everyone at some point in their life

This is not true, and even if it were the risk you are hedging against is that it will happen to YOU at an unpredictable time.

That is obviously completely different from insuring yourself against a risk that has a higher chance of affecting you than the average person and expecting that risk not to be factored into your premiums.

> If the risks were unknown, no one would know that they should be buying insurance to hedge against them.

Do you just pattern match against words? Do you see "known risk" and just assume it means something I clearly did not mean and which makes absolutely no sense?

Re:Police Are Getting DNA Data from People Who Think They Op... by timschmidt on Monday August 21, 2023 @10:15AM (#37209840)
Me? Oh, I'm just curious how much effort you're going to put into being wrong on the internet. Want to keep going?
Re:Police Are Getting DNA Data from People Who Think They Op... by memefrog on Monday August 21, 2023 @11:07AM (#37210567)
Weak response
Re:Police Are Getting DNA Data from People Who Think They Op... by timschmidt on Monday August 21, 2023 @03:49PM (#37214437)
Definitely flirting.
Re:Police Are Getting DNA Data from People Who Think They Op... by coldtea on Sunday August 20, 2023 @09:21AM (#37198874)
There's insurance from the point of "how we as an insurance company maximize profits" and insurance as "how we, as society, support a scheme to provide a net against various risks".

Societies have no reason to ensure insurance companies maximize their profits. In fact, briberry and lobbying aside, they have all the reason to regulate them for modest profits and wider spread safety net.

Thus health issues seen from DNA should be regulated to remain an unknown risk as far as insurance premiums go.

Except if somebody is more concerned about maximum insurance company profits, than for public health. In that case, can they suggest an Ayn Rand book for someone new to the author?

Re:Police Are Getting DNA Data from People Who Think They Op... by memefrog on Sunday August 20, 2023 @05:43PM (#37203180)
You are dreadfully confused. This has nothing to do with maximising health insurance company profits.
Re:Police Are Getting DNA Data from People Who Think They Op... by timschmidt on Monday August 21, 2023 @10:31AM (#37210050)
I think everyone's heard that one before.
Re:Police Are Getting DNA Data from People Who Think They Op... by memefrog on Monday August 21, 2023 @11:19AM (#37210757)
What does this even mean? Stop assuming everyone in the world thinks the same way you do and has the same pants-on-head-retarded hatred of insurance companies.

Guess what? Sane people in sane countries recognise that insurance isnt the best mechanism for accomplishing every social outcome. In fact, it is terrible at doing that for healthcare. So we dont use it that way. Instead, we do the sane thing of taxing people.

Instead you insane parochial exceptionalists think "hurr durr ill force everyone to buy insurance and ban insurance from taking into account people's health, basically making it not insurance". Then it confuses stupid people like YOU into not knowing what the term means.

Please microwave your balls. You are too stupid to be allowed to reproduce.

Re:Police Are Getting DNA Data from People Who Think They Op... by coldtea on Saturday August 19, 2023 @04:17PM (#37192722)
Subsidizing others is the whole point of insurance. It is not about your individual contributions matching the money you'll might need on a disaster scenario. It's "making money by taking from many and only giving to some".

If it was about getting what you put in back, it would be a savings account.

Re:Police Are Getting DNA Data from People Who Think They Op... by memefrog on Saturday August 19, 2023 @07:49PM (#37194546)
No it isn't. Insurance is about spreading random risk - hedging against unknowns. It is not about redistributing risk from people that are at higher risk to people that are at lower risk.
Re:Police Are Getting DNA Data from People Who Think They Op... by chmod775 on Saturday August 19, 2023 @09:26PM (#37195115)
This statement is objectivity wrong, given that many counterexamples exist, such as purely income-based health insurance premiums in many countries.
Re:Police Are Getting DNA Data from People Who Think They Op... by memefrog on Sunday August 20, 2023 @05:58PM (#37203305)
That is not insurance. It is a tax.
Re:Police Are Getting DNA Data from People Who Think They Op... by chmod775 on Monday August 21, 2023 @12:38AM (#37205551)
You're trying really hard to redefine a bunch of words, yet the set of people you can meaningfully communicate with using your alternative language is small, so what is the point?
Re:Police Are Getting DNA Data from People Who Think They Op... by memefrog on Monday August 21, 2023 @01:19AM (#37205741)
What drugs are you on? If you pay a percentage of your income mandated by the government for some service then that is income tax. Insurance is a private contract with premiums based on actuarial assessment of risk. This is not some distinction I have come up with. It is what the words have always meant.

I am sorry that you have been misled to think insurance is some sort of government wealth redistribution program but that just isn't so.

Re:Police Are Getting DNA Data from People Who Think They Op... by soco on Monday August 21, 2023 @05:37AM (#37207218)
They are probably mixing up the different kinds of state-organized social support (one being the unemployment insurance) with "real" insurance business like car accidents or legal responsibility or yeah also health.