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Re:Overworked and Underpaid, VFX Workers Vote to Unionize at... by mschuster91 on Monday August 07, 2023 @06:59PM (#37042099)
> I never understood why devs who work for game and movie studios don't quit and work for companies that pay 2-3x as much - other than for the pure love of what they do.

A very real aspect is credits. If you're developing some SaaS product or whatever, you stay a nameless cog in the wheel, and in the worst case your entire work was for nothing because the company goes down in flames anyway.

In contrast, games, movies and (at least it used to be) music? That's for eternity, even if you're an accountant or someone else with barely a tangential role to the production, your name will still be somewhere on the credit rolls. Something to one day show your grandchildren and say them "that was stuff I worked on, these were my colleagues, and these were the best war stories". And your grandchildren can brag to their friends at school "my gramps used to make Marvel movies, one he worked at is still in the top 10 of highest grossing movies ever". You leave actual legacy behind, and the jobs that offer this opportunity are rare. This is why people keep going to entertainment.

Re:Overworked and Underpaid, VFX Workers Vote to Unionize at... by jfim on Monday August 07, 2023 @07:12PM (#37042217)
Videogame programming is also pretty fun.

It's unfortunate however that credit screens for software went away in the late 90s/early 2000s. It would be interesting to be able to see who made the software that I use daily, or even other physical objects like appliances.

Re:Overworked and Underpaid, VFX Workers Vote to Unionize at... by echelon on Monday August 07, 2023 @07:24PM (#37042310)
> your name will still be somewhere on the credit rolls.

In time, nobody will watch it and nobody will care. So much long tail stuff is effectively forgotten to time. Kids don't want to inherit our old games and movies - they want new stuff that speaks to them.

I would argue your name can live longer in SaaS, where those that come after you will continually `git blame` you and praise (or curse) your name.

Re:Overworked and Underpaid, VFX Workers Vote to Unionize at... by mschuster91 on Monday August 07, 2023 @07:39PM (#37042444)
> I would argue your name can live longer in SaaS, where those that come after you will continually `git blame` you and praise (or curse) your name.

Nah. With the current expiration rate of JS frameworks, your code is lucky to live five years before someone decides a full rewrite. And unless you're working for a household brand like Twitter or Facebook, chances are high that no one outside your bubble knows what your product is, but everyone knows the MCU.

Re:Overworked and Underpaid, VFX Workers Vote to Unionize at... by grotorea on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @06:40AM (#37046998)
Yeah and with art there's at least a chance you'll make one of the classics that don't get forgotten. Or maybe people will be playing it for nostalgia in retirement homes in 80 years.
Re:Overworked and Underpaid, VFX Workers Vote to Unionize at... by jacquesm on Monday August 07, 2023 @07:46PM (#37042503)
Sure, it's for eternity. But what about food & mortgage today? This is exactly how people get convinced to work for peanuts, because they're 'a part of something' or 'supporting the arts'. But in the end if the result is a for profit thing you should simply be paid.
Re:Overworked and Underpaid, VFX Workers Vote to Unionize at... by mschuster91 on Monday August 07, 2023 @07:51PM (#37042549)
You're completely correct, I just wanted to provide some context on why many people choose to work in entertainment.

IMHO it's high time labor law enforcement starts cracking down hard on entertainment. Shit pay is one thing, but at least everyone knows what they're dealing with signing the contract - for me the worse issue is the blatant ignorance of working hour limits, break requirements and (at least in location shooting) ignorance of workplace safety rules, that routinely gets people injured and sometimes even killed.

Re:Overworked and Underpaid, VFX Workers Vote to Unionize at... by P_I_Staker on Wednesday August 09, 2023 @08:29AM (#37061641)
Reminds me of working on a ranch for community service for high school. I assumed I was working for some charity.

The truth is that the ranch charged for service. I don't think it was even a non-profit, but even if so, it was basically just a business this one asshole owned. I have no clue why it was helpful for the community to service it.

Re:Overworked and Underpaid, VFX Workers Vote to Unionize at... by mikrl on Monday August 07, 2023 @07:57PM (#37042598)
>That's for eternity

As Marcus Aurelius frames it, everyone who cares now and will care in the future will themselves die and go to nothing in time.

What is a blink of glory in this life is nothing in the grand scheme of things. Two generations of glory is nothing really, and the glory you bequeath is itself somewhat worthless since it appears more to be resting on the laurels of another rather than going towards good acts.

If it is in your nature to work on such things, then do so and take your due as it comes. If that is truly what aligns with your nature, and the common good, a 2-3x bonus elsewhere won’t concern you, nor should your own trials beyond which is necessary for continuing along one’s path.

Re:Overworked and Underpaid, VFX Workers Vote to Unionize at... by labster on Monday August 07, 2023 @09:24PM (#37043276)
Yeah but who cares about what Marcus Aurelius said, that dude’s already dead.
Re:Overworked and Underpaid, VFX Workers Vote to Unionize at... by esafak on Monday August 07, 2023 @10:15PM (#37043654)
A lot of people apparently; it's Amazon's top selling book in modern philosophy.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/books/11057/

Re:Overworked and Underpaid, VFX Workers Vote to Unionize at... by mikrl on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @11:29AM (#37050481)
Ironically enough, it was never even intended to be a magnum opus or a legacy.

Just some jottings, and notes to help him think things through while on campaign or holding court.

Yet we read them 1800 years later and aside from the parts about the gods, can still apply it to life.

Re:Overworked and Underpaid, VFX Workers Vote to Unionize at... by vvanders on Monday August 07, 2023 @08:07PM (#37042712)
> A very real aspect is credits. If you're developing some SaaS product or whatever, you stay a nameless cog in the wheel, and in the worst case your entire work was for nothing because the company goes down in flames anyway.

That really depends on the studio and publisher. I saw all sorts of credit shenanigans in my time in industry, hell I spent ~3 years on a title and because I left before ship due to insane crunch all I got was "Special Thanks". I saw people from the publisher that did almost nothing get top billing while art/dev get near the bottom. I won't even get into "developer interviews" where a large majority were from the publisher who weren't working directly on the title.

IMO if you like the space do it as a side project or gamejam/indy angle, I know of very few places from my time in the industry that were "sane".

Re:Overworked and Underpaid, VFX Workers Vote to Unionize at... by rewgs on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @04:35AM (#37046131)
> your name will still be somewhere on the credit rolls

This is unfortunately not true. All too often people are left uncredited or are given highly inaccurate credits that completely fail to convey the impact they had.

Source: I worked in Hollywood as a composer for about the past decade.