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Re:Most promoted and blocked domains among Kagi Search users by nine_k on Friday August 04, 2023 @10:28PM (#37008382)
I think you miss he point.

The usefulness of a per-user block list is not fighting outright spam. The statistical filters, etc, as applied by the search engine, work best here, as you correctly state.

The point is to remove certain well-known sites with information about well-known topics, which is unhelpful for the particular user, me. That information is technically not spam, but it's on a wrong level, badly presented, etc.

That is, if I search some info about a particular CSS trick, I want MDN be on top, some professional blogs be near top, and w3schools be on the third page. For someone else, priorities may be different, but I know what to expect for the search queries I issue, and I'd be glad if the search engine helped me.

Equally, certain domains are known to be more rich with information I happen to seek, like reddit.com, so I'd like to give them a boost. Some other people may prefer something else, or not give any boost at all.

So, this is personalization, not anti-spam. If Google kept it, it could even bring important insights into what ads I would skip and what would click :)

Maybe 90% of users would ignore this feature. But the 10% of power users maybe disproportionately important: with more disposable income, more clout on social networks, more decision-making power. I suppose that the shutdown of Google Reader, which affected a relatively small number of users, affected all the wrong people, and destroyed so much goodwill that the losses from it are many orders of magnitude larger than whatever savings from not supporting it any more.

Re:Most promoted and blocked domains among Kagi Search users by jjoonathan on Friday August 04, 2023 @10:45PM (#37008467)
Get back in line, citizen! You will read the blogspam, and you will like it.
Re:Most promoted and blocked domains among Kagi Search users by jsnell on Saturday August 05, 2023 @12:14AM (#37008964)
> That information is technically not spam, but it's on a wrong level, badly presented, etc.

I'd count that kind of low quality site as spam, and the problem is that there's a basically an infinite supply of them. The boost feature is more interesting in that the curation is at least not a never-ending task. New high quality sites that I know about don't pop up all that often!

It's still not an entirely robust feature since you'll need to do a lot of quality work to prevent mediocre results from a boosted site from shadowing better results from unboosted sites, especially for users with a ton of boosts. But that quality work is much easier to justify when the manual curation is one of your core selling points and used by a large proportion of the customers vs. when it's a feature in a dusty context menu that basically none of the userbase interacts with.

> Maybe 90% of users would ignore this feature. But the 10% of power users maybe disproportionately important

I'd be shocked if the number of users for this kind of feature was anywhere near 10% of all search engine users. Something like 0.1% seems much more likely. But again, if those 0.1% really want that feature it's a great fit for a power user search engine.

It still doesn't mean that it's a feature every search engine should obviously have.

Re:Most promoted and blocked domains among Kagi Search users by catach on Saturday August 05, 2023 @01:55AM (#37009374)
> you'll need to do a lot of quality work to prevent mediocre results from a boosted site from shadowing better results from unboosted sites

That strikes me as a non-goal. As the search engine, you can't know what attributes a user is valuing when they boost, and so you can't know when it's appropriate to override that boost. "Better" is subjective, contextual, and comes in thousands of different flavors.

Re:Most promoted and blocked domains among Kagi Search users by viraptor on Saturday August 05, 2023 @03:42AM (#37009890)
> New high quality sites that I know about don't pop up all that often!

But when they do, how are you going to know if all you see is the mediocre spam instead? No, I want to block the domains which are never going to be a good result. This may actually surface things I will want to boost.

Re:Most promoted and blocked domains among Kagi Search users by dcow on Saturday August 05, 2023 @10:59AM (#37012661)
Pintrest is among the top blocked. It clearly doesn't have spam, but it commonly shows up because of it’s vast array of user content. For people not interested in Pinterest content, this is a very useful feature.

NYTimes is another good example, great content for subscribers, essentially useless spam in a search result for non-subscribers. The only person who can configure this is the user.

Re:Most promoted and blocked domains among Kagi Search users by IG_Semmelweiss on Saturday August 05, 2023 @11:32AM (#37013011)
Can you shine light as to why w3schools.com is blocked and lowered so much, while most other sources of CS information are raised ?

Is their information of such low quality ?

Re:Most promoted and blocked domains among Kagi Search users by LordShredda on Saturday August 05, 2023 @12:13PM (#37013460)
They used to have outright incorrect information a long time ago. They fixed the site and are much better, but it's aimed at a non technical audience in the end.
Re:Most promoted and blocked domains among Kagi Search users by dcow on Saturday August 05, 2023 @08:15PM (#37017602)
https://www.w3fools.com/

They’re better now but this is timeless.

Re:Most promoted and blocked domains among Kagi Search users by lelanthran on Saturday August 05, 2023 @03:09AM (#37009721)
> I think you miss he point.

I don't think he did. He did say " it's not at all obvious that it's a good idea for an established search engine targeting the general public"

And looking at the data from the link, other than wikipedia and reddit, all the pinned domains are for developers or technical folk.

So it looks to me that kagi is not popular to the general public. If it was, programming-related sites wouldn't so heavily top the popular list.

Re:Most promoted and blocked domains among Kagi Search users by PhilipRoman on Saturday August 05, 2023 @03:43AM (#37009894)
Is w3schools still that bad? I know that it used to be awful in the past, but IIRC they managed to do a complete 180 in this regard. I'm not into webdev but I occasionally check how to use a particular feature on there and it always delivers a pretty good reference.
Re:Most promoted and blocked domains among Kagi Search users by mattmanser on Saturday August 05, 2023 @04:01AM (#37009995)
It is better than it was, but I'd still much prefer to see the mdn, it's much better.
Re:Most promoted and blocked domains among Kagi Search users by zarzavat on Saturday August 05, 2023 @05:51AM (#37010519)
I can see a certain kind of absolute beginner enjoying w3schools more than MDN, it’s a little less intimidating.

When you’re first learning a subject you often want simple lies more than complicated truths.

Re:Most promoted and blocked domains among Kagi Search users by throwaway2037 on Saturday August 05, 2023 @10:48AM (#37012543)
This is a well written post. I describes me perfectly and my knowledge of HTML/CSS/JS. I usually start with w3schools, then if I need deeper info, I repeat the search with "mdn". That does the trick!
Re:Most promoted and blocked domains among Kagi Search users by lolinder on Saturday August 05, 2023 @11:37AM (#37013068)
And this is exactly why the custom domain block list is so useful. Blocking w3schools entirely would be unhelpful to beginners, but a lot of experts find their content to be less helpful than that on other websites and would rather not see them at all.
Re:Most promoted and blocked domains among Kagi Search users by hobofan on Saturday August 05, 2023 @03:59AM (#37009981)
w3schools garnered a reputation for stating outright wrong facts. I think they rectified that part, but I think the way they break down information is still far inferior to MDN on basically every topic.
Re:Most promoted and blocked domains among Kagi Search users by ajsnigrutin on Saturday August 05, 2023 @04:36AM (#37010145)
> The point is to remove certain well-known sites

Like pinterest.

Goddamn pinterest.

Just the amount of times i've used "-pinterest" in search is staggering.

Re:Most promoted and blocked domains among Kagi Search users by jquery on Saturday August 05, 2023 @09:00AM (#37011595)
Totally get where you're coming from about removing certain domains from Google search. But let's take a step back for a sec and consider what this could look like in a different light. Imagine if Reddit got the axe - a site that, despite its redesign snafus and sometimes annoying mobile login walls, a lot of us here on HN still find pretty useful.

Now, I'm not blind to the fact that Reddit's user demographic has a lot in common with us HN folks, while Pinterest... well, not so much. It leans towards a non-techy crowd, with more women users. But the way I see it, if Google keeps popping Pinterest up in search results, someone out there must be finding it helpful.

Perhaps what this all boils down to is a bit of a demographic reality check, rather than a definitive statement on any one platform. And just to be clear, I'm not standing on a soapbox championing for Pinterest, but I reckon we could probably nudge Google to get a bit smarter with its algorithms.

So, what if instead of giving domains the chop, we pushed for Google to up its game on the personalization front? Like, if I'm consistently booting Pinterest from my searches with "-pinterest", Google could take the hint and drop it down the ranks for me. Wouldn't that make more sense than completely blacklisting sites that some folks might still want to use? In the end, we all win if Google gets better at tuning into our search habits, right?

Re:Most promoted and blocked domains among Kagi Search users by ajsnigrutin on Saturday August 05, 2023 @09:17AM (#37011722)
I'm not saying we need a global chop/removal, I'd be happy if i had personalized filters for me (using my logged-in account + removal settings) to remove pinterest just for me. Same for Quora and ExpertSexChange or whatever that other technical site was.

Same for youtube, a simple blacklist would make my search results much nicer, but youtube seems to push a few large media companies as hard as possible.

Re:Most promoted and blocked domains among Kagi Search users by dcow on Saturday August 05, 2023 @11:01AM (#37012682)
Kagi’s filters are local per-user, not global across users.