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Re:Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features by toomuchtodo on Thursday August 03, 2023 @01:07PM (#36988624)
So contract law and copyright aren't a thing because people don't want it to be? You own the hardware (you can shuck the car, part it out, mod it), you don't own the code it runs. By all means, root the car and take the features you want, but don't be shocked when Tesla either a) nukes the features remotely or b) sues you. You are taking issue with an existing legal and contract law framework. No one is forcing you to buy a Tesla and be bound by agreements with them around their IP. Would you support a software company nuking someone's license to operate their software remotely if the customer defeated a license module they didn't pay for?

(registered security researcher for my rooted Teslas)

Re:Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features by tadfisher on Thursday August 03, 2023 @01:13PM (#36988715)
Contract law is running afoul of the first-sale doctrine here. Tesla can not enforce many clauses in a potential contract or license via the legal system, so it's not as cut-and-dry as "you don't own the code".

Copyright has zero application here unless you redistribute Tesla's code or binaries. Reverse-engineering is a legal practice (in US law, at least).

Re:Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features by toomuchtodo on Thursday August 03, 2023 @01:35PM (#36989038)
> Copyright has zero application here unless you redistribute Tesla's code or binaries. Reverse-engineering is a legal practice (in US law, at least).

Reverse engineering to utilize software you didn't pay for and don't have a license or some other legal authority to use is unlikely to pass muster legally, versus for interoperability purposes.

https://www.eff.org/issues/coders/reverse-engineering-faq (Control-F "What Exceptions Does DMCA Section 1201 Have To Allow Reverse Engineering?")

Re:Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features by hooverd on Thursday August 03, 2023 @01:39PM (#36989095)
Tesla can't sue you if you splice a switch into the seat heater relays! I don't know if that's a good idea. Or maybe they thought of that and they don't turn on unless there's some of key exchange.
Re:Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features by toomuchtodo on Thursday August 03, 2023 @01:39PM (#36989101)
That's BMW, not Tesla. Tesla only offers subscriptions for premium mobile network connectivity and FSD.

https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/12/23204950/bmw-subscription...

Re:Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features by Kirby64 on Thursday August 03, 2023 @02:01PM (#36989408)
The cheapest Tesla's offered a one time unlock for rear seat seat heaters. Not any different from bmw, except bmw also offered a subscription option (bmw also offered a lifetime unlock... at a much higher price).
Re:Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features by freejazz on Thursday August 03, 2023 @01:42PM (#36989150)
Using software without the license to is copyright infringement, full stop.
Re:Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features by rightbyte on Thursday August 03, 2023 @01:55PM (#36989320)
In what way? No copy was ever made.
Re:Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features by freejazz on Thursday August 03, 2023 @01:56PM (#36989347)
Using a copyrighted work without license is copyright infringement. Not sure how to make that clearer to you.
Re:Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features by dragonwriter on Thursday August 03, 2023 @02:01PM (#36989412)
> Using a copyrighted work without license is copyright infringement

Only for the kinds of “use” that involve the exclusive rights of the copyright owner (“use” generally does not), and even then not always, because there are exceptions to copyright.

Re:Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features by 8note on Thursday August 03, 2023 @03:42PM (#36990754)
If I put a book a don't have a license to under a table leg to make it stop wobbling, it is not copyright infringement
Re:Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features by MostlyStable on Thursday August 03, 2023 @01:13PM (#36988707)
I'm not sure how contract law is relevant at all. As for copyright, they aren't copying or distributing it in any way. If you give me the code on it, I am allowed to execute it as I see fit. The only way I see copyright issues is if they weren't actually shipping the code and I had to pirate it and side load it. Which is a completely different issue than is being discussed.

If you sell me a book, I'm not allowed to copy that book and sell those copies. I am allowed to chop it up and and repaste my own copy however I see fit.

If I'm wrong and current copyright law does not permit this kind of thing, then current copyright law is bad and should be changed.

Re:Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features by toomuchtodo on Thursday August 03, 2023 @01:14PM (#36988725)
I'm fully supportive of someone going to court and finding out what happens when they do this. It is far more valuable than wild speculation. Copyright law is bad and should be changed, but that is unlikely a winning defense in the course of a civil suit (or criminally, if prosecuted for DMCA violations, such as circumvention of digital mechanisms for access control per 17 U.S.C. § 1201(a)(1)) [1] [2]. I am fairly confident (not an attorney, not your attorney) this applies to access to Tesla's FSD digital work.

[1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201 (17 U.S. Code § 1201 - Circumvention of copyright protection systems)

[2] https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/uscode.php?width=840... (circumvent a technological measure (3) As used in this subsection— (A) to “circumvent a technological measure” means to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner; and (B) a technological measure “effectively controls access to a work” if the measure, in the ordinary course of its operation, requires the application of information, or a process or a treatment, with the authority of the copyright owner, to gain access to the work.)

Re:Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features by hooverd on Thursday August 03, 2023 @01:36PM (#36989056)
This just sounds like "you get all the downsides of ownership but we get all the upsides of a subscription model".