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Re:The Cloud Is a Prison. Can the Local-First Software Movem... by theshrike79 on Thursday August 03, 2023 @10:55AM (#36986817)
I can literally right now, sitting here in my underwear, spin up 4 clustered servers in 3 different continents with a globally replicated object storage and a master + 2 slaves setup of SQL databases on each location.

And all that for less than the price of _one_ competent sysadmin's monthly salary.

How would you suggest a company would match that with local servers and sysadmins?

One sysadmin per 8 hour shift = 3 people for 24 hour rotation, you need 1-2 extra so that if one is sick the others don't need to pull a double. That's $400k a year alone.

Then you need to get the 12 identical servers purchased and shipped around the globe to colocation. Now at least one, preferably two, of the admins needs to be a proficient DBA so they can get the replicating SQL running.

Now you need to build monitoring for all of that and runbooks on what to do if crap breaks outside of office hours.

..and now a server has kicked the bucket, you need to buy a new one from $vendor, get it delivered and set up in Australia - you're in Michigan.

And in some years the servers are underpowered because your business has grown, now you need to buy 12 new ones and get them installed.

I can do all that from home without putting on my pants. I might need to grab a shirt if the AWS people want to hop on Zoom for something. =)

This is why we use the cloud and managed services, usually it's either out of our hands anyway or already fixed when we manage to log in. For the last two biggest downtimes I've encountered even Meta's crap was offline too (FB, Instagram at least).

Re:The Cloud Is a Prison. Can the Local-First Software Movem... by luma on Thursday August 03, 2023 @11:30AM (#36987256)
> I can literally right now, sitting here in my underwear, spin up 4 clustered servers in 3 different continents with a globally replicated object storage and a master + 2 slaves setup of SQL databases on each location.

Hey I can do that too in our on-prem environment because it's well managed. Hell, I can do that in my fricken homelab if you'll accept postgress.

Cloud is neat and the major vendors know how to manage it. That doesn't mean you need to pay them to use a well managed platform, but you do need to pay _somebody_.

Re:The Cloud Is a Prison. Can the Local-First Software Movem... by theshrike79 on Thursday August 03, 2023 @02:08PM (#36989501)
The premise was that one doesn’t already have a half a million dollar on-prem setup…

Like a bootstrapped one or two person startup. Or could I borrow your globally distributed home lab? =)

The difference here is that I can pay AWS by the hour (or even by the minute or second). I can’t hire a sysadmin like that.

I can try a few high GPU instances for 6 hours and shut them down. But if I need to buy 6 4090’s and the hardware to run them, I’m stuck with the choice and down a few tens of thousands.

Re:The Cloud Is a Prison. Can the Local-First Software Movem... by dijit on Thursday August 03, 2023 @05:39PM (#36992350)
> half a million dollar on-prem setup

Oh hey, that's my cloud spend.

EOM I have nothing, every month.

Re:The Cloud Is a Prison. Can the Local-First Software Movem... by Agingcoder on Thursday August 03, 2023 @11:08AM (#36986966)
It depends on the size of your company. If it has 200k employees, you can mutualize the salaries of your dbas. There are also intermediate steps between ´build your own dc’ and ´run everything in was’. You will build monitoring tools anyway, and will most likely have sysadmins too if your fleet is large enough etc.

Cloud is not always an obvious win, and depends a lot on where you work

Re:The Cloud Is a Prison. Can the Local-First Software Movem... by theshrike79 on Thursday August 03, 2023 @03:16PM (#36990425)
At 200k employees and being profitable, you can definitely can start investigating moving to on-prem. And most likely a lot sooner than that.

BUT it depends on what field you're in. If you're managing CCPA/GDPR/HIPAA data it's a huge bureaucracy mess to get everything certified. Cloud operators usually have their documented and certified already, you just need to figure out your own part.

Re:The Cloud Is a Prison. Can the Local-First Software Movem... by gizmo on Thursday August 03, 2023 @11:24AM (#36987181)
The alternative to the cloud isn't running a server in the broom closet. It's running (racks of) dedicated hardware in a datacenter. Even "on premise" is often in a datacenter somewhere, and thanks to virtualized networking it's just as if the hardware is in the same building.
Re:The Cloud Is a Prison. Can the Local-First Software Movem... by theshrike79 on Thursday August 03, 2023 @02:10PM (#36989523)
The datacenter hardware still needs people to purchase and manage the physical stuff. And those people aren’t exactly cheap.
Re:The Cloud Is a Prison. Can the Local-First Software Movem... by charcircuit on Thursday August 03, 2023 @11:52AM (#36987559)
If you want to be able to instantly spin up servers collocated you just need to have spare capacity. There is nothing that restricts you from delaying expanding your capacity until you need it. That is what slows you down.
Re:The Cloud Is a Prison. Can the Local-First Software Movem... by theshrike79 on Thursday August 03, 2023 @03:20PM (#36990474)
Try going "Hey boss, I need 20k for some servers I'm just going to let sit in their shipping boxes in case we need them later." (or you can install them but not use them for anything).

Come tell me how it went =)

I've yet to see a manager who wants to spend money up front for stuff they might possibly need in the future. YMMV

Re:The Cloud Is a Prison. Can the Local-First Software Movem... by charcircuit on Thursday August 03, 2023 @06:31PM (#36992965)
Capacity planning is the process in which you estimate how many servers you are going to need. If you overestimate it just means there is extra time before you will need more servers.

You would be spending that 20k regardless assuming the company is growing.