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Re:Fighting for the Open Web [image] by Sparkyte on Sunday July 30, 2023 @04:34AM (#36929126)
I feel like the concept of Open Web runs hard against the institutions that fund the development and growth of the internet. I'm not saying I don't support the Open Web concept. I do but it seems more like a pipe dream than something that will just happen.

If a country sees the internet as a threat it will just create its own network and only allow its population to see what it deems alright. I would say most internet today is curated. The largest issue in addition to lack of openness networks is what the network contains, we have min maxed the internet for profitability and in the wake more tech debt which no one wants to own.

You are probably asking tech debt? Let me just say this tech debt comes in the shape of garbage data, false news articles and propaganda. Last one propaganda isn't necessarily something a government makes but business do it to for misdirection. This is usually done because there is no accountability for anyone utilizing the internet.

What I'm getting at is the fact there is a lack of accountability those who keep building up the internet keep piling garbage on garbage. One day the internet will cease because there will be so much unimportant information and misinformation on the internet that it will force governments to curate the internet. Which they sort of do already.

So before we can have truly an Open Web we need to help pick up the trash we've all created over the years. Set regulations that protect the internet from further garbage. If we don't hold someone accountable eventually we will be forced down the path of a Closed Web.

I strongly believe in Open Web from browsers to the freedom of starting your own webpage without restrictions. We just have to make progress.

Re:Fighting for the Open Web [image] by libraryatnight on Sunday July 30, 2023 @04:40AM (#36929159)
waahh everything is pointless because if i do something positive someone else might do something negative. waaaaah

just go out and do something nice and refuse to be part of something shitty and maybe things will work out.

Re:Fighting for the Open Web [image] by Dah00n on Sunday July 30, 2023 @04:52AM (#36929237)
Please add something to the discussion.
Re:Fighting for the Open Web [image] by Sparkyte on Sunday July 30, 2023 @03:43PM (#36935156)
I think you read the first paragraph and off ranted.

Firstly I am for Open Web, but the lack of regulation enforcing accountability prevents this from ever occurring. Tech debt in various forms also prevent this. We need to get passed those two large hurdles.

I don't see Open Web happening because the further decades of tech debt the further we get from the goal.

Re:Fighting for the Open Web [image] by flagrant_taco on Sunday July 30, 2023 @08:02AM (#36930309)
I also really hope to see the open web make a resurgence, but I have no faith in regulation as the answer. I'm not actually sure how regulating the open web would work, seeing as regulations require laws to be written by someone deciding what can and can't be done on the internet.

Bottom-up solutions are often the hardest, and a massive undertaking compared to top-down alternatives, but if the goal is am open web I can only see that working bottom up.

Not least of all, top-down regulations that actually improve the open web would be extremely difficult when companies like Google have nearly unlimited funds and most regulators and politicians are already well accustomed to being captured. Even on a good day I would expect well-meaning regulators to ask the "experts" at Google how it's supposed to work and what the regulations should be. The FAA allows Boeing to regulate itself as does the FDA with pharmaceutical companies, why would this be different?

Re:Fighting for the Open Web [image] by Sparkyte on Sunday July 30, 2023 @03:40PM (#36935112)
Self regulation only works in a top down solution that can be held accountable.

You can't hold anyone accountable with the Internet of Things and regulations that establish accountability allow self regulation.

Re:Fighting for the Open Web [image] by flagrant_taco on Sunday July 30, 2023 @06:27PM (#36936642)
Not sure that I follow, but the open web is a bottom up approach rather than to down. Top down would be a controlled system with regulations and punishment, that isn't open at all.

Where does the internet of things fit in here?

Re:Fighting for the Open Web [image] by Sparkyte on Monday July 31, 2023 @04:06AM (#36939908)
Well the Open Web is one thing in the Internet of Things. Imagine what changes if we move closer to a closed web environment how that changes other things in the umbrella term. Open Web is desirable but the clock is ticking to a closed web.
Re:Fighting for the Open Web [image] by flagrant_taco on Monday July 31, 2023 @10:50PM (#36951751)
Ah OK I follow you now. Unfortunately I think that clock on the open web has already ended, we've effectively had a closed web for at least a decade.

Google sure seems to want to hammer in that final nail, but it's been a long road to get here.

Honestly I can't help but think we'd be better of revisiting early decisions made in Http itself, especially cookies though long-lived connections are also risky. The gemini protocol is really interesting in that area, but I can't help think they rolled it back to far with odd decisions like not requiring cert verification, utf-8 encoding URLs, and only supporting GET requests.