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Re:Police are not primarily crime fighters, according to the... by throwaway649302 on Saturday July 29, 2023 @05:05PM (#36924595)
I feel like this perspective comes from not having coming face to face with the nihilistic, sociopathic behavior of a decent percent of the underclasses. Some people don’t understand anything but immediate pain. It’s tragic, the life circumstances that got them to that point, but that’s where they are. Maybe we can do things to prevent more kids from growing up into that. But right now, millions of good people, who can’t afford to move to a nice suburb far away from the problem, need cops who are willing to bring that pain, and if that doesn’t work, lock the criminals up until they’re old enough to be docile.
Re:Police are not primarily crime fighters, according to the... by rocqua on Saturday July 29, 2023 @05:13PM (#36924680)
So the job of police is (or at least should include) not crime fighting, but beating some sense into the underbelly of society?

You talk about preventing kids from growing up and becoming bad people, but consider what it does to a kid (or any person for that matter) to see the government only interact with anyone through violence. Is that not going to exacerbate the problem?

Re:Police are not primarily crime fighters, according to the... by james4k on Saturday July 29, 2023 @05:23PM (#36924789)
incarceration rates in the US have been higher than anyone else by a huge margin for decades. it doesn't help anyone. it keeps people, families, communities perpetually in poverty.
Re:Police are not primarily crime fighters, according to the... by mschuster91 on Saturday July 29, 2023 @05:13PM (#36924673)
> I feel like this perspective comes from not having coming face to face with the nihilistic, sociopathic behavior of a decent percent of the underclasses.

I got more experience in that than one might believe on a tech forum, from working as a bartender in soddy half-casino half-bar locations.

The entire point of dismantling and rebuilding police from scratch obviously includes creating actually sustainable structures to help people with issues: expanding mental health care access, housing-first programs, financial/food aid and safe injection sites would be the top priorities.

Someone with mental health issues and a drug addiction on top isn't going to get helped by getting arrested and thrown into jail repeatedly, and yet that seems to be the common approach to such people worldwide.

Re:Police are not primarily crime fighters, according to the... by hotpotamus on Saturday July 29, 2023 @05:19PM (#36924741)
My suspicion is that society would be much nicer if we could find a way to reign in the nihilistic, sociopathic behavior of the upper classes much more than the lower ones.
Re:Police are not primarily crime fighters, according to the... by NoMoreNicksLeft on Saturday July 29, 2023 @05:43PM (#36924983)
> But right now, millions of good people, who can’t afford to move to a nice suburb far away from the problem, need cops who are willing to bring that pain, and if that doesn’t work, lock the criminals up until they’re old enough to be docile.

The cops bring that pain indiscriminately. The people who can't move away get it every bit as much as the sociopaths, maybe more so... because unlike the sociopaths, some instinct of theirs is that they should be safe for being innocent, and so do less to avoid interactions with cops.

The cops don't even help much when their attention accidentally falls on the sociopaths. Far from prosecuting and deterring the crimes that impact those "who can't move away", they invariably target drug crimes. Why? Because it's free cash. There are no amounts of cash that are so low that they don't invite civil forfeiture. Or for that matter, no sorts of valuables... jewelry, electronics, just whatever. If the cops only had sailing ships and eyepatches, they'd meet every criteria there is to become classical pirates. (Funny, but civil forfeiture law seems to originate in laws much like the letters of marquee nation-states used to issue...)

They perform no investigations, save those obligated in obvious homicides. None for larceny, petty or gross. Often, they'll only take reports of such things when victims require it for insurance claims, but then only begrudgingly and only because too many accusations of refusing to take reports is likely to stir up shit at the state capitol. They do not patrol, and if you see a car out there that looks like it might be patrolling it's more likely it's just out there trying to ambush someone for that sweet, sweet civil forfeiture money.

For some very vast majority of the public, if the cops disappeared tomorrow, nothing would change at all for better or worse. And that could continue for as long as no one realized they were gone (the panic is what could cause chaos, not the "lack of deterrence" that some would expect).