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Re:‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at... by bluescrn on Saturday July 29, 2023 @08:26AM (#36919595)
> Climate change is caused by pollution and overconsumption. We're perfectly capable to change that ... we just don't want to.

Yes, we can turn rich countries into poor countries by taking away transport, energy, and protein from the working class, and there's growing support for that approach.

But that approach also destroys most of the hope for technological solutions.

And even if the richest countries did sacrifice everything, would it be enough, if many other countries continued pursuing growth of economies, consumption, and population?

Re:‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at... by myshpa on Saturday July 29, 2023 @09:22AM (#36920053)
> we can turn rich countries into poor countries by taking away transport

City and economy planning, work from home, basic income, degrowth ...

> energy

Renewable energy, insulation and heat pumps, not air-conditioners.

> protein from the working class

That's propaganda, and now you're getting somewhere. We already get 63% of our protein from plants. If we were to extend that to 100%, we could store our entire 1.5C carbon budget through afforesting and rewilding pastures, which would also help restore biodiversity.

Climate change, resource depletion, deforestation, loss of biodiversity, pollution, overpopulation, soil erosion, and overfishing are all but symptoms of ecological overshoot.

Switching off animal protein would help solve climate change (15-25% impact, co2/methane/n20), deforestation, pollution, soil erosion and overfishing.

So it's one of the most impactful things we should do ... helping to solve 5 things out of 7.

> But that approach also destroys most of the hope for technological solutions.

We don't have any such solutions, that's something that sways the attention from things we already have at our disposal (just wait for this one thing that may or may not come ...).

> And even if the richest countries did sacrifice everything

Rich countries did/are doing most of the damage, the poorest ones are the ones paying most for it. If everyone would act as we do, we would need several more earths.

> if many other countries continued pursuing growth of economies, consumption, and population

Should they stay underdeveloped, or die out just so we could still be living like pigs in clover ?

Re:‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at... by BasedAnon on Saturday July 29, 2023 @10:52AM (#36920855)
>That's propaganda, and now you're getting somewhere. We already get 63% of our protein from plants. If we were to extend that to 100%, we could store our entire 1.5C carbon budget through afforesting and rewilding pastures, which would also help restore biodiversity.

Protein is not created equally. It is not possible to maintain a healthy diet using sustainable low-energy sources of plant protein in place of meat. Meat is not an optional part of our diet. There have been plenty of studies detailing the dietary impact of vegan diets.

Re:‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at... by myshpa on Saturday July 29, 2023 @11:10AM (#36921028)
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-chea...

Sustainable eating is cheaper and healthier - Oxford study

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35719615/

Plant-based diets were protective against cancers of the digestive system, with no significant differences between different types of cancer, a meta-analysis based on 3,059,009 subjects

https://www.dutchnews.nl/2023/04/meat-tax-would-boost-health...

Meat tax would boost health and cut healthcare spending: research

https://www.foodingredientsfirst.com/news/over-17000-doctors...

Over 17,000 doctors call on White House to shape nutrition policy on plant-based diets

"It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes." - American Dietetic Association

"A vegetarian or vegan diet can be suitable for everyone, regardless of their age." - NHS UK

"[I]t is possible to follow a well-planned, plant-based, vegan friendly diet that supports healthy living in people of all ages, and during pregnancy and breastfeeding." - British Dietetic Association.

"For adults, protein from two or more plant groups daily is like to be adequate. " - World Health Organisation

> There have been plenty of studies detailing the dietary impact of vegan diets

Meat & dairy industry is spending massive amounts of money of keeping the status quo as long as possible, same as with cigarettes or fossil fuels. A lot of those studies are paid for, be aware.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/may/03/beef-ind...

Inside big beef’s climate messaging machine: confuse, defend and downplay

https://newrepublic.com/article/171781/meat-culture-war-cric...

Why Right-Wingers Are So Afraid of Men Eating Vegetables

https://www.salon.com/2022/11/11/the-meat-industry-is-borrow...

The meat industry is borrowing tactics from Big Oil to obfuscate the truth about climate change

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/23778399/media-ignores-cl...

Why the media too often ignores the connection between climate change and meat

https://www.salon.com/2023/05/13/how-big-oil-is-manipulating...

Re:‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at... by bluescrn on Saturday July 29, 2023 @12:00PM (#36921514)
And this is why people are being pushed away from the environmental movement as a whole. As well as the activists blocking roads and throwing paint around.

Significant changes to energy/fuel usage and transport/travel were already hard for people to accept, with vast numbers of jobs/livelihoods so dependent on cars. But trying to take away meat at the same time (let alone all dairy) is just too much to ask, certainly not an election winner.

(So we get to 'conspiracy theories' about the WEF and global policy being dictated undemocratically, with a war on farming that nobody voted for set to cut food production at a time when we're told that the biggest risk from climate change is crop failure and famine...)

Re:‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at... by myshpa on Saturday July 29, 2023 @12:11PM (#36921624)
> Significant changes to energy/fuel usage and transport/travel

Nothing significant have happened yet.

> war on farming that nobody voted for set to cut food production

No one wants to reduce food production. We just need to do more of what is sustainable and avoid doing the things that are not.

> the biggest risk from climate change is crop failure and famine

And with deforestation and soil depletion our farming practices are one of the biggest culprits of that.

> conspiracy theories

Yep, let our politicians solve the problem ... but don't change a thing!

Re:‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at... by BasedAnon on Saturday July 29, 2023 @12:09PM (#36921608)
Re:‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at... by myshpa on Saturday July 29, 2023 @05:57PM (#36925112)
Not a fan of scientific articles, opinions of health organizations and articles disproving your point? Fine ... i'll make it shorter.

> It is not possible to maintain a healthy diet using sustainable low-energy sources of plant protein in place of meat.

Not true.

> Meat is not an optional part of our diet.

Not true.

> There have been plenty of studies detailing the dietary impact of vegan diets.

There have been. Some paid by meat industry, some peer reviewed and supporting my point.

Could you share some of those studies supporting your point?

Re:‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at... by tzs on Saturday July 29, 2023 @08:01PM (#36926186)
Even if we accept that meat is not optional we don't have to eat so much of it. Most of Europe consumes 1/2 to 2/3 of the meat per capita as the US. China too. Japan consumes about 40% per capita as the US and they consumer a mix of meats that has much less climate impact. India consumes around 1/30th of the US in meat per capita.
Re:‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at... by BasedAnon on Sunday July 30, 2023 @11:08AM (#36931919)
in western countries sure, there is a glut of food but there are non-western countries that are chronically malnutritioned and that absolutely do need that meat. it's a distribution problem not a farming problem
Re:‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at... by myshpa on Sunday July 30, 2023 @09:07PM (#36937796)
False Cause fallacy
Re:‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at... by Gigachad on Saturday July 29, 2023 @07:58PM (#36926166)
Would standards of living really decline that much if we didn’t all have mega SUVs and the latest years iPhone?

There is so much consumption that is absolute crap and could easily be cut out while honestly improving life.

Re:‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at... by bluescrn on Saturday July 29, 2023 @08:51PM (#36926525)
> Would standards of living really decline that much if we didn’t all have mega SUVs and the latest years iPhone?

Would emissions really decline by a measurable amount if the changes were limited to that?

If we're going to have any impact on the climate, changes need to be drastic and on a global scale. But at the same time, governments will not accept an end to economic growth, let alone a managed 'degrowth'. They can't even allow an end to population growth as it's such an important factor in economic growth.

If we can't even end the era of hugely destructive wars between nations, what hope is there for the human race coming together on the scale necessary to slow/reverse climate change?