First of all, Europe (which is in many respects not a single entity) has extensively acknowledged injustices done to Roma.

Second, no, there are not relevant historical ties there anymore. Otherwise you could argue that Italy has ties to Egypt due to the Romans or Greece has ties to India due to Alexander.

Perhaps India should acknowledge it‘s own history before lecturing Europe, which is a history of surpressing the scheduled castes - in many ways comparable to the Roma.

While your point is quite interesting (I didn't know Romanis originated from India!), they did emigrate around 1000 CE, or 1000 years ago. I'm not sure whether you can even call them of Indian origin anymore?

I'm Indian and I dont think "Europe" enslaved India. Britain did. But Britain is not Europe. France and portugal had some small colonies but none of the other european powers were too successful.

India has had a long history of trading with rome, greece and the rest of europe for at least 3500years.

It’s not India I am referring to. It’s the Romany people that are of Indian origin.

Do you actually live in Eastern Europe? It certainly doesn't seem so. Roma population are one of the saddest sights I've ever seen, there is minimal integration with rest of societies, ans absolutely 0 integration with India, most of population doesn't even understand their history. Also, not sure if you are linking Roma and slavery, at least in East that was absolutely never the case, in contrary there were medieval laws banning them from entering cities etc.

Communism tried to integrate them into society by force (if you didn't work the work state assigned you, you went straight to jail, or gave them whole apartment blocks which they destroyed beyond repair, see [1]), it worked till the iron hand fell with iron curtain and Roma unemployment reached 98-99% levels. Most, at least in Slovakia, continue to live in extremely basic illegal slums, see [2]. Its still quite normal to see naked kids run around in dirt all year long, including heavy snow.

There are massive health and social issues within community, addictions, parasites and other easily treatable sickness, massive amount of incests, by 15 most Roma girls are already mothers (seen it myself in school), standard amount of kids parents have is 10-12 to get most out of social support. States and society basically gave up, there is no quick solution, and solution that may work would take at least 5-10 election periods, so nobody bothers.

[1] https://www.google.com/search?q=lunik+IX&client=firefox-b-d&...

[2] https://www.google.com/search?q=roma+settlements+in+eastern+...

I did live in east europe, and whenever I go there and witness this ongoing genocide my stomach turns inside out as much as it does when i witness their status in west europe. Roma people being discriminated heavily in both east and west europe is telling of what europeans have done in their past to other peoples.

“Integration” is an euphemism for erasure. Their unique culture shouldn’t be mistaken for what some elements of their society do thanks to centuries of marginalisation, genocide and slavery.

An assertive India may be beneficial to them. Mody has acknowledged their origin. And although they are a European folk I am resorting to India as that may be their only hope of support for emergence.

As I told another commenter I am glad for your reply. I want people to learn about how the Roma live, and how they are treated and I want them to hear it from those that don’t like them.

> witness this ongoing genocide

There are more Romani living in Eastern Europe now than there were 60 years ago.

It's the world's worst executed genocide.

> Also, not sure if you are linking Roma and slavery, at least in East that was absolutely never the case, in contrary there were medieval laws banning them from entering cities etc.

It absolutely was the case. Roma slavery in Romania is a well known part of history.[0] It doesn’t matter that they might have been banned from cities, because slavery put them to work on e.g. boyars’ and monastic estates.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Romania

what more could be done to correct it? gypsie communities already receive great support without contributing anything.

gypsie communities are incredibly narrow minded, conservative and sexist, I find it perplexing that typical left wing people tend to support them. I guess they don't really know what's up because they've never met any.

gypsies actively shun their own that go to school. Not university or college. School.

they buy their wives from their parents.

they expect everything from the state/host society, and give nothing back.

Whoa, ok. Amasing.

I am however glad you made this comment.

I want the world to learn about what’s happening in europe. Both east and west are guilty of an ongoing genocide and no one wants to talk about it and rectify this atrocious mistake.

I hope Indians will not take this kindly, because even though Romany are European there are some in their community that are proud of their origin and seek closer ties. And to be fair I would support any political movement that wants to help these people get back on their feet and one way is even more vocal support from India (Mody already acknowledged their origin). Roma people are valuable to Europe. They are a folk that need to emerge and assert their rightful place in Europe’s history.

And your comments make it clear that you have never interacted with gypsies or their communities, and only view them through a romanticised version of the internet.

> I would support any political movement that wants to help these people get back on their feet

It is them who do not want something different. Imposing your view on their world does not work, they do not want change.

What exactly are their contributions that make them valuable to Europe?

I have actually.

But see, it’s difficult to get them to open up. Many hide their identity as well as they can due to fear of abuse.

Confusing the criminal minority in their community with their culture is wrong. And i am suspecting you are making this confusion. Roma people are not what you think they are.

I grew up in the Balkans. There were two large gypsy camps near my city.

I went to prison, which coincidentally is packed with gypsies (and not because they are being discriminated against). I've met countless gypsies, their families, etc.

An ex girlfriend used to voluntarily go to the gypsy camp with a mobile school to teach them basic, primary school stuff. They did not want to learn and only made sexist comments (the kids.).

Gypsies unfortunately have no place in a post industrial western society. Sure, their seemingly anarchistic lifestyle is romantic and attractive, but it is far from the reality.

Yeah me too. I was even robbed by "them". I "suffered" due to the "image" they created. And then i realised that's all bullshite and there's more to this story.

I spoke with Romany PHd students, bachelor students, authors, entrepreneurs, people that like you and eye slave away for a day off or for good daily rate.

They almost all do their best to hide their identity and ethnicity. In countries such as Austria, Germany, Sweden, Finland, even the slightest suspicion that you are Gypsy can result in verbal and physical, abuse. Policies of entire countries are made around it.

Some people may say that you went to prison because you didn't want better. Both you and I know there is nuance to it.

If you, your mother, your father, your family, your friends have all been raised in povery, marginalisation, and lived in constant fear of reprisal you would have done what the Roma do. You would have isolated yourself where you found confort. I know I would have.

The Roma didn't have the opportunity I did, they were almost always pushed aside. I know because I spoke to a bunch of Roma students that where afraid to reveal they were Roma to the point they shivered. We had to speak about it in private almost as if they were being hunted.

I also know because I knew a Swiss professors who shared racist jokes about them without shame. German, French, Romania, Dutch, and so on.

I don't deny there is a criminal element in their society and culture. Equally I don't deny there's good, and we need to dig for that good as we do in our "own".

I agree with most of what you say, but also you cannot paint an entire (and very problematic) society in a positive light based on what very few outliers have achieved. What is the percentage of educated gypsies? 0.01%? 0.1% at best?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the Indians that came to Europe basically outcasts?

They didn't leave India because India was being nice to them...

So there's shame on both sides.

From what I am reading I am not sure. Some sources say they were brought in by the Mongol hordes, while others indeed say they were outcasts.

https://www.travellerstimes.org.uk/features/feature-roma-and...

This link claims that they were captured by the mongols and brought to europe where they were then enslaved, for instance, by romanians and by others.

Other sources indeed claim that they fled india as they were a lower caste and while initially allowed to live freely they were eventually enslaved.

I know for a fact that in Romania they were enslaved - there are articles in the Romanian media showing ads from the interwar period where roma slaves were sold on the open market. In some regions they were still slaves until the early 90s (they were called “sluga”).

The fact that we know little about their history and there are virtually no museums or places to learn about it is quite telling. Western europe for instance completely erases their history and uniqueness by conflating them with romanians.

All I can gather are sparse sources, but they all point to india, slavery, and loads and loads of historical abuse towards them.

Romanis were enslaved in most of Europe for long periods of time. In Romania they were liberated in... 1861, I think.

Their history is super sad, yes.

Contemporary scholarship has posited that the ancestors of the Roma left India as e.g. camp followers of armies pursuing their livelihoods, not necessarily as outcasts intentionally turning their backs on India.

> Their original name is from the Sanskrit word डोम (doma) and means a member of a Dalit caste of travelling musicians and dancers.

For those unaware, Dalits are "untouchables", the lowest Indian caste.

Ironic that if they left India on their own, they were and are treated worse in Europe. Meanwhile in India today, of just the ruling party's 303 representative seats, 190 are held by the 'lower caste' (officially under either the Scheduled Caste or Scheduled Tribe lists, or Other Backward Caste list).

Really puts paid to the affirmative action fueled india-bad-caste-bad-hindu-bad notion that gets so much traction in Europe.

The real question is: how are their socioeconomic stats? That's the crux of the matter. I'd be happy to hear that they're average or above.

Some sources indicate they were captured from india by the mongols and then brought to europe only to be enslaved again. These people are seriously unfortunate.

Contemporary scholarship holds that at least a large portion of the Roma had already left India for Persia long before the Mongol invasion.

Interesting. I find it frustrating that there is little coherent documentation available on this topic.

The documentation is less incoherent than you assume. My own background is in linguistics, so I am familiar with the literature on the history of the Roma that take evidence of historical language contact into account. The relevant chapter in Matras’ Romani: A Linguistic Introduction (Cambridge University Press, 2004) has a pretty accessible overview of prior scholarship and the modern state of the art. As Matras points out, interaction between the Romani and the Byzantine Greeks was ongoing from the eleventh century at the latest, so they had left India well before the Mongol invasion (which happened in the mid-twelfth century).

Thank you for sharing this. I will look it up in more detail.