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Re:How “It works in my machine” turns to “It works in my con... by rad_gruchalski on Wednesday July 26, 2023 @07:24PM (#36886565)
> So my issue is that now I have PostgreSQL running... inside a container? So I need to figure out where the data for it is stored and figure out how to ensure it is being backed up.

And how is that different from running directly on the OS?

Re:How “It works in my machine” turns to “It works in my con... by serf on Thursday July 27, 2023 @01:06AM (#36889147)
the OS will have an understood abstraction behind the filesystem structure, whereas container-systems often create an entirely new abstraction that they view as the best way.

this makes sense when you're trying to be deployable universally, but it increases the amount of onboarding that someone needs to receive before they're proficient with the container system; onboarding they may have not actually needed to get the software working and well understood, simply 'docker overhead'.

from personal experience : i'm a long time old linux person, the insistence on going 'all in' on Docker (or whatever) just to run a python script that has two or three common shared dependencies gains me nothing but the hassle of now having to maintain and understand a container system.

if you're shipping truly fragile software that is dependent on version 1.29382828 rather than version 1.29382827 then I understand the benefits gained, but just to containerize something very simple in order to follow industry trends is obnoxious, increasingly common, and seemingly has soured a lot of people on a good idea.

p.s. : I can also understand the idea of containerizing very simple things as parts of a larger mechanism; I just don't get it with the promise that it'll reduce end-user complexity, it isn't that simple.

Re:How “It works in my machine” turns to “It works in my con... by leghifla on Thursday July 27, 2023 @02:06AM (#36889538)
About "truly fragile software", it seems to be the norm now, thanks to the ease docker provides to hide this
Re:How “It works in my machine” turns to “It works in my con... by nerdponx on Thursday July 27, 2023 @02:33AM (#36889742)
* * *
Re:How “It works in my machine” turns to “It works in my con... by imtringued on Thursday July 27, 2023 @02:49PM (#36898352)
I am honestly shocked by the amount of comments here that mention volume mounts as some gotcha. No it isn't. It is as trivial as it gets.
Re:How “It works in my machine” turns to “It works in my con... by rad_gruchalski on Thursday July 27, 2023 @04:49AM (#36890722)
I like your point of view. I started working with software more than 20 years ago and did my fair share of VMs, bare metal, ESXi 3.5, and so on.

However, we live in the world where the choice we have for new hires is: a) teach them all of those OS fundamentals, b) give them Docker.

This doesn’t mean we shouldn’t strive to teach said new developers all those underlying concepts, but when we talk about training juniors and have them contribute relatively quickly, it’s a much smaller surface area to bite through.

Re:How “It works in my machine” turns to “It works in my con... by saurik on Thursday July 27, 2023 @06:02AM (#36891293)
Docker doesn't solve having to know OS fundamentals as both the inside and the outside of the container have an OS, and now you additionally have to know how to communicate between the former and the latter.
Re:How “It works in my machine” turns to “It works in my con... by rad_gruchalski on Thursday July 27, 2023 @06:38AM (#36891587)
> This doesn’t mean we shouldn’t strive to teach said new developers all those underlying concepts

That's what I said.

Furthermore, the operations team needs to know. Yes. A junior person can contribute almost immediately with a limited surface knowledge.