Climate scientists are brigaded regularly, especially online so I'm fine with them keeping a low profile. Historically the bringers of bad news were executed. These days we're a bit better but not all that much.

Uncomfortable truths and all that...

Meanwhile, you should try to respond to the arguments made, not to the man. From behind -ironically - your own anonymity.

> Historically the bringers of bad news were executed. These days we're a bit better but not all that much.

Am I reading this right—currently scientists that bring bad news aren’t treated all that much better than…being executed?

You are not reading that right. We are not executing them in the literal sense but people's lives are being ruined.

One of the bits that made it into the guidelines is that if there are multiple explanations for a comment that you're supposed to go with the stronger one. You seem to have picked the wrong interpretation on purpose. Please don't do that.

> You are not reading that right. We are not executing them in the literal sense but people's lives are being ruined.

I didn’t suggest that my reading was that they are being executed in the literal sense. I was saying that my reading was that what’s happening to scientists is only a little bit better than literal execution—and because I found that reading so surprising, I asked if that was correct.

> One of the bits that made it into the guidelines is that if there are multiple explanations for a comment that you're supposed to go with the stronger one. You seem to have picked the wrong interpretation on purpose. Please don't do that.

Seems to me there’s a bit of hypocrisy going on here. I literally asked if my reading of it was correct. For you to say that I purposely picked a wrong interpretation (though I’m not sure your explanation suggests that my actual interpretation was wrong) would seem to mean that you think my question was insincere—that I wasn’t actually wanting to know if my interpretation of it was correct. That’s fine, but you had the choice of believing I was being sincere or that I was being insincere. Did you pick the “stronger”?

And to be clear, I’m generally on your side with regard to your overall point. The trend over the last decade or more of people attacking scientists who dare find results that conflict with their politics makes me furious.

I can't respond to arguments made, because I'm not a climate scientist, I just move pixels around in my day job. I don't know anything about climate simulations, the past and present literature, etc. In the same way I trust doctors when they say I need stuff cut out from my body, or that ingesting this or that would give me cancer, in the same way I trust people who study climate science for a living, that have a career in climate science and that have published in scientific journals. I'm not a superman, I can't learn every domain that is to learn for every study published. We have some people that study a thing -- we will trust them. And like wise, when people need pixels moved, they can come to me, they can trust me to move the pixels.

I’m maybe overly cautious about my online footprint. I understand your skepticism and think it’s well placed. For what it’s worth I don’t see my comment as FUD and would wager that the authors of the study would agree with my comment. I enjoyed their study and was just trying to provide additional context (see also the link in my edit).

You are totally right that my comment is worth significantly less than a peer reviewed study.

You'd love to ruin his career and publicly shame him for having incorrect views wouldn't you?

Awarding credibility on the basis of having a public face is absurd, and it's trivial to conceive of the way that could be politically silencing of dissident views, or that lack of anonymity would incentivize sticking to consensus.

People disagree anonymously on the internet all the time, since the beginning. Are you incapable of judging the merits of an argument without requiring some appeal to authority?

What is there to judge? The original commenter is the one making an appeal to authority, then just saying they are skeptical. In short an anonymous giving their opinion. The parent is right saying it’s of way lower value than the study.

Because a study lays out a more thorough and detailed argument, not because someone's real name or credentials are attached.

The crux of my disagreement was his claim a name attached to an argument a priori makes it more valid than one that is anonymous.

In a highly politicized environment, it can possibly be argue that a real name makes it less credible and more likely to be consensus. Putting that aside, it certainly doesn't it make it more credible.

That's crossing into personal attack. Please don't do that here.

I disagree it was a personal attack. I just said anonymous posters who claim they are <X> don't have credibility, in contrast with people who put their names and credentials up there. I haven't called the poster names or insulted them.

It's very easy to shape public opinion, dang; we shouldn't let anonymous posters set the tone of discussion or flung FUD around on the most important issue of our lives.

When I go to the doctor, I know I can trust them because I see a diploma on the wall, they have a name, I can ask other doctors about them. Would you, dang, let someone you just met on the street operate on you? Or diagnose you? Just because they said they were a doctor?

You're misassessing the costs and benefits of attacking people for posting anonymously.

Re costs: Look at https://news.ycombinator.com/posts?id=oceanthrowaway - the odds that this commenter is legit are quite high. Would it would have been better if they had posted under a regular username? Sure, but people sometimes have good reasons for making throwaway accounts to post about topics they're professionally expert in. Such comments add value to HN, sometimes a lot of value (e.g. sometimes they give important inside information about a topic), and punishing people for doing that is against the community interest.

Re benefits: it's not at all easy to "shape public opinion" by an anonymous comment on an internet forum. You'd have to do it repeatedly, and the more repetitive it gets, the more predictable the comments become, and the more likely the community will have an immune response to it. In my experience from moderating this place over the years, internet users are far too quick to assume that they're encountering manipulative stealth behavior.

What you should be responding to instead is the quality of the comments. If a throwaway account is repeatedly posting low-quality comments, then sure, that's a good reason to be critical - but the throwawayness of the account should not be the high-order bit.

If you had made your point less aggressively, I probably wouldn't have responded, but you came down on the GP like a hammer (e.g. "spreading FUD from behind anononymity") and that put your comment on the wrong side of the HN guidelines.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

> you should be responding to instead is the quality of the comments.

But that's the thing, isn't it? I'm not an expert in climate science, I can't judge what's quality and what's FUD reasonably phrased. Neither the vast majority on HN. There is no way for us to determine if this anonymous guy makes some good points or just wants to spread some doubt towards the study. Just because climate science seems more approachable than maths, doesn't mean people are equipped to determine what's true, what's manipulation or what's plausible.

Blows my mind some guy made an account, said he was a physical oceanographer, made some grammatically correct comments and everyone believed it. Just like that!

> internet users are far too quick to assume that they're encountering manipulative stealth behavior.

It's 2023 and it's about climate change, dang...

In that case you could ask curious questions that would help you, and the rest of us, to learn about it; or you could just not post.

> I can't judge what's quality and what's FUD

I hear you! but you attacked the other person specifically for "spreading FUD". That is not a helpful thing to do, even if you can judge the question.