News for hackers. Stuff that matters.

A comment on GM reverses plan to retire Chevrolet Bolt as it chases EV target. Parent comment

Re:GM reverses plan to retire Chevrolet Bolt as it chases EV... by giobox on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @02:41PM (#36867322)
I think the distinction people are grasping at here are monocoque constructed vehicles (the vast majority of cars/crossovers/SUVs on sale today) and ladder-frame/body on frame construction - most trucks and some really big SUVs/offroaders.

It's the body on frame vehicles that end up being heavy and compromised much of the time - its a way of manufacturing a vehicle that stretches back practically to the stone age. I also agree crossovers do not deserve to be compared to body-on-frame construction.

In interests of not upsetting anyone - I also agree there are some limited usecases body on frame is better! But for most private passenger transport, a monocoque construction will have advantages - size, weight, fuel economy (function of weight reduction), driving dynamics, pedestrian safety etc. Body on frame can also make it easier for a commercial vehicle to offer bed customization options, given the car structurally is just a pair of rails on wheels that can be extended or shortened as application demands. A monocoque generally can't change its length as easily.

There are new pickups flirting with monocoque construction - the Honda Ridgeline, Ford Maverick, Hyundai Santa Cruz, famously the Tesla Cybertruck...

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:GM reverses plan to retire Chevrolet Bolt as it chases EV... by linuxftw on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @03:09PM (#36867770)
Trucks need to haul and tow. You need a real steel frame to do that.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:GM reverses plan to retire Chevrolet Bolt as it chases EV... by giobox on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @03:51PM (#36868364)
The cybertruck will manage 14,000lbs on a monocoque. Just because traditionally this hasn't been the case doesn't mean you can't make a monocoque that can tow. The truck industry has had little incentive to innovate here until very recently as for 40 years vintage body-on-frame architectures have sold and sold. As I said - I'm not disagreeing that body on frame does have some legitimate use cases today - it's just that with modern construction techniques it's much more rarely going to be private transport.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:GM reverses plan to retire Chevrolet Bolt as it chases EV... by linuxftw on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @04:07PM (#36868568)
I think if someone tries to tow 14k lbs with a cybertruck, it's going to be ripped in half.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:GM reverses plan to retire Chevrolet Bolt as it chases EV... by giobox on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @04:09PM (#36868600)
It's literally rated for 14,000 lbs, so no, it won't.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:GM reverses plan to retire Chevrolet Bolt as it chases EV... by linuxftw on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @04:26PM (#36868862)
Rated by who? Because I don't believe Tesla's claim because it seems absolutely outlandish. They would have been building F150's like this decades ago if it were true.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:GM reverses plan to retire Chevrolet Bolt as it chases EV... by giobox on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @04:34PM (#36868994)
Has a car manufacturer ever lied about rated tow weights in recent memory? I genuinely don't see the incentive - it would just lead to crashes, warranty claims and eventually a class action lawsuit, or worse if deaths resulted. People rely on these numbers to drive safely.

14,000 lbs is absolutely within realms of normal/possible for a nearly 20 foot long 6000lb truck - its more or less exactly the same as high-spec Ford trucks.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:GM reverses plan to retire Chevrolet Bolt as it chases EV... by linuxftw on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @04:56PM (#36869383)
Has Tesla ever promised something and not delivered, I think that's the real question. Another question is, how often are Teslas totaled for what would be a minor accident in another vehicle?

All that twisting and bending force being applied to a unibody, I can't see it ending well.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:GM reverses plan to retire Chevrolet Bolt as it chases EV... by lesuorac on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @05:19PM (#36869759)
Tesla's Model X (depending on options) has a towing capacity of 5k lbs [1]. As far as I can tell, nobody is claiming that this is false and there's a few anecdotes of people with 5k campers they tow.

So, afaik, historical claims by Tesla on towing capacity are true so there seems to be more reason to believe a future towing claim is accurate based on previous towing claims than believe it's false because previous non-towing claims have been false.

[1]: https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modelx/en_us/GUID-7A684E2...

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:GM reverses plan to retire Chevrolet Bolt as it chases EV... by linuxftw on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @06:07PM (#36870305)
5k on a unibody is standard. I'm just talking about feature claims in general.

I think we're going to see Cybertrucks with totally trashed frames if they try to go live with 14k loads.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:GM reverses plan to retire Chevrolet Bolt as it chases EV... by linuxftw on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @06:47PM (#36870799)
It's standard in the sense that the vast majority of unibody vehicles produced today have a 5k towing limit.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:GM reverses plan to retire Chevrolet Bolt as it chases EV... by dangus on Wednesday July 26, 2023 @03:42PM (#36883736)
It’s not even available for sale.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:GM reverses plan to retire Chevrolet Bolt as it chases EV... by hcurtiss on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @06:50PM (#36870819)
I ran into one problem with monocoque/unibody construction. I ran my wife's Honda Pilot into another vehicle on icy roads. Around 5 mpg, direct T-Bone. We drove home about 75 miles just fine. No leaking fluids. About 35,000 miles total on the car. Just smashed in the front right a little. Insurance totaled it and gave me $18,500. Body shop told me monocoque/unibody construction is very difficult and expensive to repair. Evidently, for anything more than plastic fender-benders, they're very frequently "totaled" instead of repaired.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:GM reverses plan to retire Chevrolet Bolt as it chases EV... by dangus on Wednesday July 26, 2023 @03:41PM (#36883714)
I think this is a very minor downside of this style of construction.

Another aspect is that repairability of the frame isn’t as important as preventing injury to the occupants.

You know what’s more expensive than a totaled $18,500 vehicle? Hospital bills.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:GM reverses plan to retire Chevrolet Bolt as it chases EV... by hcurtiss on Friday July 28, 2023 @05:50PM (#36913830)
I am not convinced in that circumstance I would have been worse off in an F-150 or any other modern body on frame construction.
[ Parent | on HN ]