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Re:U.S. Senate bill crafted with DEA targets end-to-end encr... by bruce511 on Monday July 24, 2023 @01:42AM (#36843518)
They've also been good with the messaging on drugs. Colombian Drug Cartels right? If only we can go to war in South America we can fix it.

But the majority of drug use are home-grown. [1]. Take marijuana out the picture (home grown) and Oxy, Prescriptions and other (home grown) drugs prevail.

Criminalising weed is a failed policy, which thankfully is being slowly dropped.

Less impressive is that the drug machine that created the oxy crisis is more or less ignored.

[1] https://drugabusestatistics.org/

Re:U.S. Senate bill crafted with DEA targets end-to-end encr... by fatfingerd on Monday July 24, 2023 @04:20AM (#36844546)
The DEA is the same social problem as the cold war agencies. The US can't actually get rid of jobs of the correct prestige for these people and as long as they are kept they will continue to commit the US to a criminal path.
Re:U.S. Senate bill crafted with DEA targets end-to-end encr... by mschuster91 on Monday July 24, 2023 @07:28AM (#36846129)
> But the majority of drug use are home-grown.

The thing is, there are three categories of illicit drugs:

- relatively harmless / have established use: a lot of the "home grown" drugs fall under this category, they are usually low-price as they are mass products. Marijuana and diverted pharma pills, mostly.

- stuff that is extremely fucking dangerous, like fentanyl, its even more strong cousin carfentanyl, meth or self-made stuff like krokodil (gained from boiling codein cough medicine). Extremely simple to make in general, extremely potent, extremely hard to wean off.

- stuff that fuels organized crime, aka cocaine (almost exclusively grown/refined in Southern America) and heroin (which comes to an overwhelming degree from Afghanistan's poppy farms).

The large cartels almost exclusively focus on the latter, as there's a ton of money to be made smuggling that, which is a very real problem as the cartels can offer sums to corrupt officials even in Western countries that pay good money to border control staff. A boat full of cocaine can make hundreds of millions of dollars, while no one cares about a boat full of weed - not worth the effort.

Re:U.S. Senate bill crafted with DEA targets end-to-end encr... by pixl97 on Monday July 24, 2023 @10:30AM (#36848598)
Cocaine is not expensive... it's the black market effect that makes its street price high.
Re:U.S. Senate bill crafted with DEA targets end-to-end encr... by TacticalCoder on Monday July 24, 2023 @12:03PM (#36850134)
But then why is majiuana cheap and cocaine expensive?

In most countries ganja isn't legal either.

Re:U.S. Senate bill crafted with DEA targets end-to-end encr... by mschuster91 on Monday July 24, 2023 @12:27PM (#36850523)
It's easy to grow compared with cocaine. You can grow the plant in a tent or if need be just on your windowsill, pluck and trim it, dry it, then smoke it or bake it in an edible. And even a single plant is good for quite a number of joints. Hash oil extraction is more difficult but most stoners prefer to smoke pure or tobacco mix weed anyway.

Cocaine in contrast, you need 300-ish grams of leaves to make 1 gram of cocaine, and a ton of chemistry afterwards to extract and purify it.

Re:U.S. Senate bill crafted with DEA targets end-to-end encr... by pixl97 on Monday July 24, 2023 @01:56PM (#36851833)
For the level of processing involved, marijuana isn't that cheep when compared to any other bulk farming product. Hemp fiber for example is around $150 per ton. The markup is still very high comparatively for the drug product.

When you look at the production line of something like high fructose corn syurp, you could industrialize the process in to the range of $10000 per ton pretty easily.

Again, it's the black market that turns it into the million dollar range because of the risks involved.

Re:U.S. Senate bill crafted with DEA targets end-to-end encr... by red-iron-pine on Monday July 24, 2023 @12:56PM (#36850984)
> diverted pharma pills, mostly.

these are, in many cases, just other drugs given out in low doses and by prescription.

vicodin and percos are just opiates, and fall into the latter two categories.

no one gives a shit if grandpa is giving a couple of viagras to his homies or sharing his cholesterol medication.

Re:U.S. Senate bill crafted with DEA targets end-to-end encr... by cogman10 on Monday July 24, 2023 @09:47AM (#36847934)
The issue is we have a bunch of puritan teetotalers who think the best way to "fix" society is to criminalize the parts of society they find morally objectionable.

It doesn't matter that the social sciences have found that rehab works WAY better than prison [1]. It doesn't matter that incarceration is WAY more detrimental both to the individual and society [2]. Nope, sinners need to be punished.

If we want a better society, make drugs legal and send public funds to public rehab rather than private prisons.

Let's leave prison as a last resort for people that are actually dangerous to society; Not your uncle who grew weed in his backyard.

[1] https://www.apa.org/monitor/julaug03/rehab

[2] https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2021/05/13/mentalhealthimp...

Re:U.S. Senate bill crafted with DEA targets end-to-end encr... by staringback on Monday July 24, 2023 @09:56AM (#36848052)
And then when the drug affected individuals refuse help? You end up with downtowns like Seattle, Portland, LA, etc
Re:U.S. Senate bill crafted with DEA targets end-to-end encr... by foxyv on Monday July 24, 2023 @10:33AM (#36848666)
The evidence indicates that primary cause of homelessness is housing affordability. Shelters are over-subscribed and programs have so many strings attached that it is nearly impossible to remain on them. The trope of drug addicts who are homeless by choice is a talking point to distract from the real issue of housing shortages and gutless assistance programs. In addition, homeless people are often the target of crime.

Between 60-75% of homeless people are not on any drugs or alcohol. They are just homeless. In addition, Housing First initiatives have seen sharp drops in addiction.

Re:U.S. Senate bill crafted with DEA targets end-to-end encr... by cogman10 on Monday July 24, 2023 @10:15AM (#36848353)
Have you actually been to downtown Seattle/Portland? I have fairly recently. It's really not that bad.

But to that, I'd also point out that "refusing help" is hardly the reason seattle/portland have so many homeless people. A lot of these people have been priced out of apartments. Some have suffered from mental health issues (or have developed mental health issues after becoming homeless).

My son's teacher's aid was temporarily homeless while being fully employed. She was simply priced out of living anywhere. Do you think that was a result of substance abuse?

The attitude of your post is actually part of the reason homelessness is so bad. It's the view that people are homeless because they did something wrong to deserve it. Addressing homelessness requires compassion and funds. You can never make it go away all together, but you can relieve it simply by giving people a place to exist.

Re:U.S. Senate bill crafted with DEA targets end-to-end encr... by malcolmgreaves on Monday July 24, 2023 @11:07AM (#36849224)
I think thread poster is only commenting on the smaller, yet much more visible mental ill homelessness.

While housing is the solution to true majority of homelessness (like your individual income experience with the teacher), people like the individual above above make valid observations. They’re pointing out problems that, at the very least, get intermingled with consequences of homes being unaffordable for all. This need not be a value judgement on their character. It is a value judgement on actions, which is something that not only is fair (all are in control of what they choose to do), but necessary for a functioning society (how else do you morally compel folks to follow laws and determine responsibility if not by one’s actions?).

The solution is to both make housing affordable to every person *and* ensure everyone who needs it takes it.

Re:U.S. Senate bill crafted with DEA targets end-to-end encr... by gottorf on Monday July 24, 2023 @11:23AM (#36849476)
> Addressing homelessness requires compassion and funds.

If you're talking about working people being priced out of homes in stupidly low-density cities (which places like Seattle and Portland are), the greater part of the solution is just building more so that supply rises to match demand.

Artificially suppressing the supply of homes via government action (restrictive zoning) then helping the people who lost homes as a result via government action (social services funded by redistributive taxation) is just so wasteful that I don't even know where to begin.

Re:U.S. Senate bill crafted with DEA targets end-to-end encr... by staringback on Monday July 24, 2023 @01:51PM (#36851746)
> the greater part of the solution is just building more so that supply rises to match demand.

Just like building more lanes to match the demand of traffic, yeah?

Re:U.S. Senate bill crafted with DEA targets end-to-end encr... by gottorf on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @11:38AM (#36863906)
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make?

Expanding roadways are an example of induced demand, which means that for some class of things, as it gets cheaper (or qualitatively better/less costly, as in the example of traffic), more people consume it by shifting preferences from alternatives, and in the end it's just as pricey (or qualitatively poor) as before. Is your point that as housing gets cheaper in a place, more people will be housed and eventually the equilibrium goes back higher?

If so, isn't that the goal? More people are still housed than before.

Re:U.S. Senate bill crafted with DEA targets end-to-end encr... by staringback on Monday July 24, 2023 @01:49PM (#36851721)
> Have you actually been to downtown Seattle/Portland? I have fairly recently. It's really not that bad.

I was actually in downtown Seattle last night (not seeing Taylor Swift though). These people who line the streets are not in shelters because the shelters do not let them use drugs. They are in tent cities overdosing off fentanyl whilst virtue signalers like you scream that there isn't enough housing.

Across Lake Washington in Bellevue, where the median rent price is 50% higher, there are none of these drugs addicts, so if it is a housing problem, why are they all centered in Seattle? Because Seattle City Council, King County all allow it to happen.

Re:U.S. Senate bill crafted with DEA targets end-to-end encr... by gorlilla on Monday July 24, 2023 @04:32PM (#36853795)
You realize that your 'hot take' is that persecuted people will gravitate to areas where they aren't persecuted.

It seems you are simply saying that there should be no refuge... Al least not 'amongst' society.

Re:U.S. Senate bill crafted with DEA targets end-to-end encr... by staringback on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @11:12AM (#36863503)
Sounds good to me, I'd like to be able to visit local parks without having to watch out for needles
Re:U.S. Senate bill crafted with DEA targets end-to-end encr... by malcolmgreaves on Monday July 24, 2023 @11:02AM (#36849141)
Solution is mandatory treatment when someone demonstrates they can’t take care of themselves AND as a result their behavior is causing problems for others.

Not the folks struggling to get housing (just build more and give it away for operating/maintenance cost, don’t recoup capital investment ). Just the few 10-20% of the highly visible ones with mental health problems (and the like 3% that are just asses- every large enough group of people has got ‘em!).

Re:U.S. Senate bill crafted with DEA targets end-to-end encr... by 0xdeadbeefbabe on Monday July 24, 2023 @11:29AM (#36849597)
Understanding this stuff isn't beyond puritans or teetotalers. Believing in an easy solution sounds like addict/ex-addict thinking to me.
Re:U.S. Senate bill crafted with DEA targets end-to-end encr... by noobface on Monday July 24, 2023 @11:47AM (#36849871)
You sure? This comment looks like a misunderstanding at best and an indictment of your own character at worst. Automatically assuming people who use substances are addicts is extreme and wildly judgmental.
Re:U.S. Senate bill crafted with DEA targets end-to-end encr... by cogman10 on Monday July 24, 2023 @12:35PM (#36850663)
Who said the solution was easy? Do you think dismantling and rebuilding a huge portion of the penal code would somehow be easy? Do you think revitalizing and rebuilding our public mental health services is a cake walk?

Just because the solution can be expressed simply doesn't mean it's "easy".

I'm neither and addict or ex-addict. But I am an ex puritan/teetotaler. I'm well aware of how they think, preach, and talk about this stuff. I'm living proof that it's not beyond them, but the fact is you have to abandon your puritan/teetotaling beliefs to actually understand the problem.