Re:New Yorkers Got Broken Promises. Developers Got 20M Sq. Ft
by JackFr on Saturday July 22, 2023 @11:58AM
(#36827331)
There was a comment a few years ago from the parking violations commissioner, when people were complaining that parking tickets were exorbitant, that they had to keep raising the fines to keep above the price of parking n a lot.
[ Parent
| on HN ]
Re:New Yorkers Got Broken Promises. Developers Got 20M Sq. Ft
by MontyCarloHall on Saturday July 22, 2023 @12:03PM
(#36827368)
This is exactly why fines ought to scale with the offender’s income, e.g. the €120k speeding ticket given to a millionaire in Finland [0].
[0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/06/finnish-busine...
Re:New Yorkers Got Broken Promises. Developers Got 20M Sq. Ft
by readthenotes1 on Saturday July 22, 2023 @12:21PM
(#36827514)
For individuals, maybe that works.
For a building company getting ready to add on several million dollars worth of floor space, you can bet that they will engineer their books so if they have little to no income.
They do that already for income taxes....
Re:New Yorkers Got Broken Promises. Developers Got 20M Sq. Ft
by jauntywundrkind on Saturday July 22, 2023 @08:09PM
(#36831261)
For property I might mildly suggest basing fines off the property tax.
Re:New Yorkers Got Broken Promises. Developers Got 20M Sq. Ft
by pg_1234 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @04:27PM
(#36839480)
Don't fine them, just take ownership of the illegal portion of the construction.
The city can sublet it, the developer derives zero revenue.
Re:New Yorkers Got Broken Promises. Developers Got 20M Sq. Ft
by smitty1e on Saturday July 22, 2023 @01:13PM
(#36827927)
On the other hand, there is an "equality before the law" point worth making.
Precedent being an odd mother, the capacity to morph violations into stealth taxation might not be a power one wants to grant to a government.
Re:New Yorkers Got Broken Promises. Developers Got 20M Sq. Ft
by genocidicbunny on Saturday July 22, 2023 @01:32PM
(#36828066)
What's not equal about applying the same percentage? No matter your means, the fines are the same percentage, which to me is pretty danged equal when the point is to punish certain behaviours.
Re:New Yorkers Got Broken Promises. Developers Got 20M Sq. Ft
by smitty1e on Saturday July 22, 2023 @02:50PM
(#36828718)
Same problem as a national VAT: turning the tax base into an ATM empowers myopic polixy.
Re:New Yorkers Got Broken Promises. Developers Got 20M Sq. Ft
by genocidicbunny on Saturday July 22, 2023 @02:52PM
(#36828733)
Wouldn't it be more like a VAT where you pay based on your means, not what the product costs?
That and I don't really have a problem with making the rich the country's piggybank.
Re:New Yorkers Got Broken Promises. Developers Got 20M Sq. Ft
by smitty1e on Saturday July 22, 2023 @08:26PM
(#36831362)
You'll not have a problem until the rich eject, take their wealth with them, and crash the tax base.
See: NY, CA, &c.
Re:New Yorkers Got Broken Promises. Developers Got 20M Sq. Ft
by genocidicbunny on Saturday July 22, 2023 @08:32PM
(#36831388)
Make it federal, and have a steep 'exit penalty' for renouncing citizenship if you're over a certain wealth threshold. Make it so that if you try to renounce your citizenship to avoid the taxes, you're left to start from zero again, and if you don't renounce your citizenship, you owe the taxes no matter where in the world you are (and in most of the world, Uncle Sam can absolutely get to you if he wants.)
Re:New Yorkers Got Broken Promises. Developers Got 20M Sq. Ft
by smitty1e on Sunday July 23, 2023 @03:26PM
(#36838777)
As a personal example, I left the military reserve because, inter alia, the joy of serving my country mattered less than the tax beating I was taking for being bumped into a higher bracket.
That is: (dis)incentives matter.
Maybe we can agree that our tax system is a Byzantine train wreck in need of reform.
Re:New Yorkers Got Broken Promises. Developers Got 20M Sq. Ft
by zo1 on Saturday July 22, 2023 @04:19PM
(#36829482)
Well then if applying the same percentage is a principle, how about we apply it to taxes?
Re:New Yorkers Got Broken Promises. Developers Got 20M Sq. Ft
by genocidicbunny on Saturday July 22, 2023 @07:36PM
(#36831050)
If taxes were applied based on total wealth and not income, the two would be comparable. But the taxes you're talking about, income taxes, aren't taxing wealth but the rate of change of wealth, and I can accept that we need to apply slightly different principles in that case.