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Re:Carnegie Mellon, University of Pittsburgh end use of lega... by noobermin on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @12:24PM (#36788964)
I fundamentally do not understand why merit is something you should focus on when it comes to admission into a university. The entire point of an education is to learn, may be you need the bare minimum to enroll but universities shouldn't be chasing the brightest students, they need an education the least.

Just because thats how it should work in some people's heads as the ideal doesn't mean it makes any actual sense if you really interrogate the idea. Meritocracy makes sense after you have an education, it doesn't make sense before it.

Re:Carnegie Mellon, University of Pittsburgh end use of lega... by CrampusDestrus on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @12:28PM (#36789041)
Resources are finite. If college courses were recorded lessons or they just gave you a theory book and an exercises book, then of course we could automate everything. Just sign up, pay your fee and take the exams and once you're done you get the degree, even full remote. Your taxes will go towards professors and a fuck ton of TAs for questions and exercises and to keep the infrastructure running.

But we're not there yet

Re:Carnegie Mellon, University of Pittsburgh end use of lega... by nostromo on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @12:35PM (#36789190)
Perhaps it’s politically incorrect to say, but students learn best when they’re around students that are of similar intelligence and motivation to succeed.

Taking a brilliant kid and putting them around underachievers doesn’t do anyone any good.

Re:Carnegie Mellon, University of Pittsburgh end use of lega... by OO000oo on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @12:40PM (#36789276)
Students learn best when they have a quiet home to study in, 3 quality meals a day, parents who aren't working 3 jobs they can ask questions to, parents who aren't fighting about paying the bills that month, good school supplies, etc.
Re:Carnegie Mellon, University of Pittsburgh end use of lega... by nostromo on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @12:48PM (#36789428)
Agreed. So let's go solve those problems and stop pretending the solution is to put underachieving kids into top schools to make ourselves feel better.
Re:Carnegie Mellon, University of Pittsburgh end use of lega... by OO000oo on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @01:04PM (#36789700)
I will only feel better when the working class controls the society it built.
Re:Carnegie Mellon, University of Pittsburgh end use of lega... by ativzzz on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @01:58PM (#36790540)
Once they do that, they become the ruling class and the elites. Then their children are no longer working class, and are now the enemies.
Re:Carnegie Mellon, University of Pittsburgh end use of lega... by OO000oo on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @02:00PM (#36790569)
In such a case, I won't feel better yet will I? So we'll try again...
Re:Carnegie Mellon, University of Pittsburgh end use of lega... by ativzzz on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @02:02PM (#36790602)
Just like we've tried in the past again and again and again... and a few thousand years later here we are and we will keep trying :)
Re:Carnegie Mellon, University of Pittsburgh end use of lega... by OO000oo on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @02:13PM (#36790766)
Exactly. A lot of progress was made in that time, so I have little patience for defeatism.
Re:Carnegie Mellon, University of Pittsburgh end use of lega... by pastacacioepepe on Friday July 21, 2023 @02:11PM (#36817332)
You're missing the point: If the working class becomes the ruling one finally the majority rules, not a rich elite.
Re:Carnegie Mellon, University of Pittsburgh end use of lega... by nancyhn on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @12:59PM (#36789597)
Conversely, putting someone who isn't well suited to that environment is setting them up for failure.
Re:Carnegie Mellon, University of Pittsburgh end use of lega... by indymike on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @01:00PM (#36789622)
> Taking a brilliant kid and putting them around underachievers doesn’t do anyone any good.

In a meritocracy, those that do not achieve do not advance, so this is not a problem after a time. I was in the US Navy's Nuclear Propulsion program. It was the closest thing to a pure meritocracy. You didn't pass a test, do the work, or behave in line with expectations you were sent to the fleet. After a few months, only the capable and motivated were left. It was completely colorblind, completely free of social agenda. You could either do the job well enough or not.

I watched a lot of wash outs where there someone would find a way to tip the scales in college to keep them passing along. I watched the following wash out: the son of a Navy Captain, a congressman's kid, a couple of sons of really rich parents.

Re:Carnegie Mellon, University of Pittsburgh end use of lega... by indymike on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @12:52PM (#36789481)
> Meritocracy makes sense after you have an education, it doesn't make sense before it.

This is really a truth. There really is no meritocracy if you gate who is allowed to have merit before you measure it. Regulating opportunity to control outcomes is the exact opposite of what should be done to have a true meritocracy.

Re:Carnegie Mellon, University of Pittsburgh end use of lega... by worrycue on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @02:08PM (#36790692)
> universities shouldn't be chasing the brightest students, they need an education the least.

Or it can be seen as give education to the students that will make the best use of it maximizing value to society.